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Kids don't know enough to 'do history' like historians

  • Writer: Joanne Jacobs
    Joanne Jacobs
  • Oct 22
  • 1 min read

Consultants want history teachers to introduce students to primary sources, write Jon Bassett and Gary Shiffman on the Knowledge Matters Campaign site. But students can be overloaded with too many documents with too little context.


Thomas Nast cartoon satirizing Boss Tweed
Thomas Nast cartoon satirizing Boss Tweed

Historians have lots of content knowledge and practice in inquiry and analysis, they write. Students can't "do history" like historians, because they're novices.


In one widely available curriculum, "a typical lesson requires middle school students to read and interpret five nineteenth century documents — in 20 minutes!," they write. "In another curriculum, students are expected to compare and contrast five documents from the 17th and 18th centuries in a single class period."


They developed 4QM Teaching, called the Four Question Method, to help students understand history, and have just introduced a U.S. history (1492-1877) curriculum.


Students start by asking: What happened?


Then they focus on the key people and ask: What were they thinking?


"Teachers dedicate an entire class period to helping students closely read and skillfully interpret a single primary source," they write. Students struggle to understand the point of view of historical characters. It takes time.

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Ann in L.A.
Oct 24

My experience is that AI makes this worse. I long for an AI system which is domain specific. If asking about real, historical events, AI should first focus on primary sources. Instead, it takes the general feelz of the internet. So, where the general consensus of thinking is wrong, or where a large group of sites on the internet are pushing a wrong idea, that floats to the top in AI searches.


My test is always Crispus Attucks, who was killed at the Boston Massacre. There are only 2 primary sources about his life: an ad when he ran away from slavery, and his death at the massacre. Yet, books have been written about his life, how he was a…


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Guest
Oct 23

National History Day is a good way to get kids actually doing historical research, BUT -- 1. It's like 6-7 months of work, easily. 2. They expect kids to read a bunch of secondary sources as they plan their project and want a mix of secondary and primary sources in the bibliography.

  1. It runs from 4th-12th grade, and the kids take several years to really get the process down.

  2. They expect a good project to look at remote causes, immediate causes, the event itself, immediate aftereffects and longterm effects. Which means they have to be able to contextualize their primary sources.


Many of these in class exercises are an attempt to prep kids for the DBQ questions on APUSH and AP Euro,…


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JKBrown
Oct 22

Same damage they did in English lit. The teachers push students to what they had to do in college, but students know it is BS


Nothing can be more hypocritical than for young people who are still in the rudiments of literature to be forced into pronouncing objective judgments as to the worth of literature. Students instinctively feel this, and resent all attempts to get them to pretend a knowledge which they do not possess. On the other hand, they are beginning to be dissatisfied with judging books and other works of art on the ground of mere impulsive like or dislike. It is time, then, for something less ambitious than criticism, and more thoughtful than caprice.  Interpretation rather than criticism. 
---Freshman Rhetoric, John Rothwell Slater, Ph.D. Professor of…

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superdestroyer
Oct 26
Replying to

I have the idea that literature in high school is done like an autopsy. Students are expected to break down a novel for its parts and then exam each part separately. Even if a students does extra work to show that the teacher or writers may be wrong in discussing the novel, the teachers will usually tell the student do just repeat what they have been taught in class.

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