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	<title>Comments on: &#039;Idaho farm boys&#039; aren&#039;t &#039;diverse&#039;</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/07/idaho-farm-boys-arent-diverse/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: Roger Sweeny</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/07/idaho-farm-boys-arent-diverse/#comment-60439</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Sweeny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=16427#comment-60439</guid>
		<description>jab,

Acceptance rates are not a measure of selectivity.  I&#039;m sure you can imagine a country club, tells everyone &quot;No blacks, no Indians, no Asians, no Latins, no Catholics, no Jews, no gays, no immigrants.&quot;  Last year, ten people applied for membership and nine got in, all white Anglo-Saxon Protestants with yearly incomes above 100K and net worth above 200K.

The club&#039;s 90% acceptance rate says nothing about how selective it is.  It would be wrong to say that because the acceptance rate is 90%, &quot;it just is not that difficult to gain admission.&quot;

SuperSub,

You are, of course, right about the math.  In that case, half the students would go to schools with above average SAT scores.  If those schools were also &quot;selective&quot;, it would mean that half the students had to deal with a selective admissions process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jab,</p>
<p>Acceptance rates are not a measure of selectivity.  I&#8217;m sure you can imagine a country club, tells everyone &#8220;No blacks, no Indians, no Asians, no Latins, no Catholics, no Jews, no gays, no immigrants.&#8221;  Last year, ten people applied for membership and nine got in, all white Anglo-Saxon Protestants with yearly incomes above 100K and net worth above 200K.</p>
<p>The club&#8217;s 90% acceptance rate says nothing about how selective it is.  It would be wrong to say that because the acceptance rate is 90%, &#8220;it just is not that difficult to gain admission.&#8221;</p>
<p>SuperSub,</p>
<p>You are, of course, right about the math.  In that case, half the students would go to schools with above average SAT scores.  If those schools were also &#8220;selective&#8221;, it would mean that half the students had to deal with a selective admissions process.</p>
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		<title>By: ricki</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/07/idaho-farm-boys-arent-diverse/#comment-60438</link>
		<dc:creator>ricki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=16427#comment-60438</guid>
		<description>While I wasn&#039;t turned away from it, when I was in college a &quot;multicultural&quot; group got started in my dorm. I attended a few meetings before realizing &quot;multicultural&quot; was code for &quot;people other than YOU&quot; and decided to stop coming. I wasn&#039;t turned away, but I was made to feel unwelcome.

Whatever. I tend to do a Reverse Groucho Marx: I want no part of a group that doesn&#039;t want me as a member.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I wasn&#8217;t turned away from it, when I was in college a &#8220;multicultural&#8221; group got started in my dorm. I attended a few meetings before realizing &#8220;multicultural&#8221; was code for &#8220;people other than YOU&#8221; and decided to stop coming. I wasn&#8217;t turned away, but I was made to feel unwelcome.</p>
<p>Whatever. I tend to do a Reverse Groucho Marx: I want no part of a group that doesn&#8217;t want me as a member.</p>
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		<title>By: GoogleMaster</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/07/idaho-farm-boys-arent-diverse/#comment-60437</link>
		<dc:creator>GoogleMaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=16427#comment-60437</guid>
		<description>@MRogow, is it possible that your daughter attends The University of Texas at Austin, the flagship campus of the largest university system in the state of Texas?  I don&#039;t know of a &quot;University of Austin&quot;.  There&#039;s Stephen F. Austin State University, but I wouldn&#039;t describe it as terribly selective.  There&#039;s also an Austin College in Sherman, but it&#039;s private, so I don&#039;t think that&#039;s what you&#039;re referring to.

The top 10% rule means that the top 10% of the students of the lowest performing high school in the worst school district in the state are automatically admitted to state universities.  Meanwhile, at the highest performing public schools, where the 11-20% may all be multiple-AP, 4.0+ students, those who don&#039;t make the 10% cut are leaving the state and boosting the brainpower of other states&#039; universities.  The result, IMHO, is rather a dumbing-down of the better public universities of Texas, as those who only squeaked in by virtue of the top 10% rule end up washing out and wasting a spot that could have gone to a more capable student.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MRogow, is it possible that your daughter attends The University of Texas at Austin, the flagship campus of the largest university system in the state of Texas?  I don&#8217;t know of a &#8220;University of Austin&#8221;.  There&#8217;s Stephen F. Austin State University, but I wouldn&#8217;t describe it as terribly selective.  There&#8217;s also an Austin College in Sherman, but it&#8217;s private, so I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s what you&#8217;re referring to.</p>
<p>The top 10% rule means that the top 10% of the students of the lowest performing high school in the worst school district in the state are automatically admitted to state universities.  Meanwhile, at the highest performing public schools, where the 11-20% may all be multiple-AP, 4.0+ students, those who don&#8217;t make the 10% cut are leaving the state and boosting the brainpower of other states&#8217; universities.  The result, IMHO, is rather a dumbing-down of the better public universities of Texas, as those who only squeaked in by virtue of the top 10% rule end up washing out and wasting a spot that could have gone to a more capable student.</p>
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		<title>By: jab</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/07/idaho-farm-boys-arent-diverse/#comment-60436</link>
		<dc:creator>jab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 21:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=16427#comment-60436</guid>
		<description>National universities just outside the top 50 according to USNWR... admissions rates are mostly above 50% near the top with a couple exceptions and in 70&#039;s to 80&#039;s near bottom... SATs are in 1200&#039;s near top, 1100s near bottom... (this is on the recentered, renormed test in which average is around 1000).  I was correct on admissions rates, but I admit I was a little off on SAT scores.

However, I&#039;m sure if you drop down to schools just outside the top 100... admissions rates will be well over 80% and SAT scores average. Schools just outside top 50 are still somewhat selective... but drop down another 30 spots, and it just is not that difficult to gain admission.

Rank 52 Yeshiva University	         66.5%  1235
Rank 53 George Washington University     37.4% 	1290
Rank 53 Ohio State University--Columbus  62.3% 	1230
Rank 53 University of MD, CP             39.2% 	1295
Rank 56 Boston University                54.3% 	1270
Rank 56 University of Pittsburgh         55.4% 	1260
Rank 58 Pepperdine University            34.4% 	1230
Rank 58 Syracuse University              52.5% 	1160
Rank 58 University of Georgia            55.6% 	1230
Rank 61 Clemson University               53.8% 	1220
Rank 61 Fordham University               46.8% 	1230
Rank 61 Purdue University--West Lafayette71.5% 	1160
Rank 61 Texas A&amp;M University             70.1% 	1205
Rank 61 University of Minnesota          52.5% 	1250
Rank 66 Rutgers,                         55.8% 	1200
Rank 66 University of Connecticut        54.5% 	1215
Rank 68 Southern Methodist University    49.7% 	1240
Rank 68 University of Delaware           56.0% 	1170
Rank 68 Worcester Polytechnic Institute  66.9% 	1285
Rank 71 Brigham Young University--Provo  69.3% 	1235
Rank 71 Indiana University--Bloomington  70.7% 	1175
Rank 71 Michigan State University        70.0% 	1140
Rank 71 U. of California--Santa Cruz     71.7% 	1150
Rank 71 University of Iowa               82.3%  1195</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>National universities just outside the top 50 according to USNWR&#8230; admissions rates are mostly above 50% near the top with a couple exceptions and in 70&#8242;s to 80&#8242;s near bottom&#8230; SATs are in 1200&#8242;s near top, 1100s near bottom&#8230; (this is on the recentered, renormed test in which average is around 1000).  I was correct on admissions rates, but I admit I was a little off on SAT scores.</p>
<p>However, I&#8217;m sure if you drop down to schools just outside the top 100&#8230; admissions rates will be well over 80% and SAT scores average. Schools just outside top 50 are still somewhat selective&#8230; but drop down another 30 spots, and it just is not that difficult to gain admission.</p>
<p>Rank 52 Yeshiva University	         66.5%  1235<br />
Rank 53 George Washington University     37.4% 	1290<br />
Rank 53 Ohio State University&#8211;Columbus  62.3% 	1230<br />
Rank 53 University of MD, CP             39.2% 	1295<br />
Rank 56 Boston University                54.3% 	1270<br />
Rank 56 University of Pittsburgh         55.4% 	1260<br />
Rank 58 Pepperdine University            34.4% 	1230<br />
Rank 58 Syracuse University              52.5% 	1160<br />
Rank 58 University of Georgia            55.6% 	1230<br />
Rank 61 Clemson University               53.8% 	1220<br />
Rank 61 Fordham University               46.8% 	1230<br />
Rank 61 Purdue University&#8211;West Lafayette71.5% 	1160<br />
Rank 61 Texas A&amp;M University             70.1% 	1205<br />
Rank 61 University of Minnesota          52.5% 	1250<br />
Rank 66 Rutgers,                         55.8% 	1200<br />
Rank 66 University of Connecticut        54.5% 	1215<br />
Rank 68 Southern Methodist University    49.7% 	1240<br />
Rank 68 University of Delaware           56.0% 	1170<br />
Rank 68 Worcester Polytechnic Institute  66.9% 	1285<br />
Rank 71 Brigham Young University&#8211;Provo  69.3% 	1235<br />
Rank 71 Indiana University&#8211;Bloomington  70.7% 	1175<br />
Rank 71 Michigan State University        70.0% 	1140<br />
Rank 71 U. of California&#8211;Santa Cruz     71.7% 	1150<br />
Rank 71 University of Iowa               82.3%  1195</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/07/idaho-farm-boys-arent-diverse/#comment-60435</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 20:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=16427#comment-60435</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why would you want to ruin perfectly good kids, FFA, 4H, ROTC, by putting them in Ivies?&quot;

Thanks, Richard--needs to be said and you said it well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why would you want to ruin perfectly good kids, FFA, 4H, ROTC, by putting them in Ivies?&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks, Richard&#8211;needs to be said and you said it well.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Aubrey</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/07/idaho-farm-boys-arent-diverse/#comment-60434</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Aubrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 15:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=16427#comment-60434</guid>
		<description>Why would you want to ruin perfectly good kids, FFA, 4H, ROTC, by putting them in Ivies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would you want to ruin perfectly good kids, FFA, 4H, ROTC, by putting them in Ivies?</p>
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		<title>By: SuperSub</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/07/idaho-farm-boys-arent-diverse/#comment-60433</link>
		<dc:creator>SuperSub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 15:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=16427#comment-60433</guid>
		<description>Roger-
The SAT comment is perfectly reasonable if the top 100 universities admit nearly half of the nation&#039;s college applicants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger-<br />
The SAT comment is perfectly reasonable if the top 100 universities admit nearly half of the nation&#8217;s college applicants.</p>
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		<title>By: MRogow</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/07/idaho-farm-boys-arent-diverse/#comment-60432</link>
		<dc:creator>MRogow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=16427#comment-60432</guid>
		<description>My daughter goes to University of Austin, a (super) selective state school. The Uni. is into &#039;diversity&#039; in a big way, but it&#039;s just like the article said, only a select few count. Under the &#039;Top 10%&#039; rule in Texas if you graduate in the top 10 of your class you can go to any Texas school. My daughter says it seems to benefit many rural white kids from the country that Austin would never let in themselves. This year (class of &#039;11) Austin got to raise the bar to top 7%. Here in Texas however, the colleges all seem to appreciate ROTC and the Scouts (boy and girl), etc. When my daughter was a freshman they were required to go to a &#039;diversity&#039; meeting and she garnered much applause when she stood up and told the organizer that everything they were talking about was just good manners and anyone in college already knew all that stuff anyway, having been force fed it since at least high school!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My daughter goes to University of Austin, a (super) selective state school. The Uni. is into &#8216;diversity&#8217; in a big way, but it&#8217;s just like the article said, only a select few count. Under the &#8216;Top 10%&#8217; rule in Texas if you graduate in the top 10 of your class you can go to any Texas school. My daughter says it seems to benefit many rural white kids from the country that Austin would never let in themselves. This year (class of &#8217;11) Austin got to raise the bar to top 7%. Here in Texas however, the colleges all seem to appreciate ROTC and the Scouts (boy and girl), etc. When my daughter was a freshman they were required to go to a &#8216;diversity&#8217; meeting and she garnered much applause when she stood up and told the organizer that everything they were talking about was just good manners and anyone in college already knew all that stuff anyway, having been force fed it since at least high school!</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Sweeny</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/07/idaho-farm-boys-arent-diverse/#comment-60431</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Sweeny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=16427#comment-60431</guid>
		<description>jab,

An acceptance rate above 50%, even &quot;well above 50%,&quot; doesn&#039;t mean a school &quot;will admit just about anyone.&quot;  For one thing, most people who don&#039;t think they can get in don&#039;t apply.  It&#039;s a waste of their time and money.

Your assertion about SAT scores doesn&#039;t sound accurate.  There are thousands of colleges and universities in the United States.  It is mathematically unlikely that only 100 of them are more than &quot;barely above average.&quot;  (But, hey, I could be wrong.  I don&#039;t have the figures.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jab,</p>
<p>An acceptance rate above 50%, even &#8220;well above 50%,&#8221; doesn&#8217;t mean a school &#8220;will admit just about anyone.&#8221;  For one thing, most people who don&#8217;t think they can get in don&#8217;t apply.  It&#8217;s a waste of their time and money.</p>
<p>Your assertion about SAT scores doesn&#8217;t sound accurate.  There are thousands of colleges and universities in the United States.  It is mathematically unlikely that only 100 of them are more than &#8220;barely above average.&#8221;  (But, hey, I could be wrong.  I don&#8217;t have the figures.)</p>
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		<title>By: SuperSub</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/07/idaho-farm-boys-arent-diverse/#comment-60430</link>
		<dc:creator>SuperSub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=16427#comment-60430</guid>
		<description>When I attended Cornell from 98-02 there was a flap on campus about a white student who attempted to attend a free, &quot;open to any student&quot; event held by the campus Black Program Center/Residence Hall. They were turned away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I attended Cornell from 98-02 there was a flap on campus about a white student who attempted to attend a free, &#8220;open to any student&#8221; event held by the campus Black Program Center/Residence Hall. They were turned away.</p>
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