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	<title>Comments on: Judge rejects Seattle&#039;s &#039;discovery&#039; math</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/02/judge-rejects-seattles-discovery-math/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:51:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Parents revolt against math fads &#171; Joanne Jacobs</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/02/judge-rejects-seattles-discovery-math/#comment-55015</link>
		<dc:creator>Parents revolt against math fads &#171; Joanne Jacobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=13468#comment-55015</guid>
		<description>[...] Parachutes on Education News, Barry Garelick of World Class Math answers the question about a Seattle court case: “What’s a court doing making a decision on math textbooks and curriculum?” In fact, the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Parachutes on Education News, Barry Garelick of World Class Math answers the question about a Seattle court case: “What’s a court doing making a decision on math textbooks and curriculum?” In fact, the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Student of History</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/02/judge-rejects-seattles-discovery-math/#comment-55014</link>
		<dc:creator>Student of History</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=13468#comment-55014</guid>
		<description>The Seattle Times has now written a strong editorial urging the School Board not to appeal and to vote again on what textbooks to use.

Here&#039;s the Link:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorials/2010995832_edit08mathbooks.html

&quot;If the Seattle School Board thinks constructivism is a superior way to teach math, it had better be willing to explain why.&quot;

This shift of the burden of proof should be a rallying cry for parents and taxpayers all over the country. We are the people who must live with the bad results and we should not have been ignored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Seattle Times has now written a strong editorial urging the School Board not to appeal and to vote again on what textbooks to use.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the Link:</p>
<p><a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorials/2010995832_edit08mathbooks.html" rel="nofollow">http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorials/2010995832_edit08mathbooks.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;If the Seattle School Board thinks constructivism is a superior way to teach math, it had better be willing to explain why.&#8221;</p>
<p>This shift of the burden of proof should be a rallying cry for parents and taxpayers all over the country. We are the people who must live with the bad results and we should not have been ignored.</p>
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		<title>By: andrei radulescu-banu</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/02/judge-rejects-seattles-discovery-math/#comment-55013</link>
		<dc:creator>andrei radulescu-banu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=13468#comment-55013</guid>
		<description>Which means that if the school board really wants to adopt the curriculum, it can hold a hearing at which a representative of Discovering Math testifies why it would be a good idea to adopt it.

Calling a representative of Discovering Math to testify on the merits of their own curriculum is of no value, as it represents a conflict of interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which means that if the school board really wants to adopt the curriculum, it can hold a hearing at which a representative of Discovering Math testifies why it would be a good idea to adopt it.</p>
<p>Calling a representative of Discovering Math to testify on the merits of their own curriculum is of no value, as it represents a conflict of interest.</p>
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		<title>By: Zeev</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/02/judge-rejects-seattles-discovery-math/#comment-55012</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=13468#comment-55012</guid>
		<description>Roger,

You are correct except that now, if the program bombs, the board will not be able to excuse itself by saying that it simply relied on some (idiot) administrator&#039;s recommendations. And the board members tend to want to be re-elected...

Democracy is wonderful when it works. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger,</p>
<p>You are correct except that now, if the program bombs, the board will not be able to excuse itself by saying that it simply relied on some (idiot) administrator&#8217;s recommendations. And the board members tend to want to be re-elected&#8230;</p>
<p>Democracy is wonderful when it works. <img src='http://www.joannejacobs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Roger Sweeny</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/02/judge-rejects-seattles-discovery-math/#comment-55011</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Sweeny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=13468#comment-55011</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;By the way, the lawsuit did not result in the court selecting a textbook or curriculum. The court ruled only on the procedure used to select the textbook, not on its merits. They have asked the district to revisit their selection.&lt;/i&gt;

Which means that if the school board &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; wants to adopt the curriculum, it can hold a hearing at which a representative of Discovering Math testifies why it would be a good idea to adopt it.  They can then officially consider this evidence and vote in favor of adopting Discovery.  The representative will be happy to provide suggested language for the board&#039;s justification, language which will purport to show the decision is neither arbitrary nor capricious, and is in fact in the best interest of the students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>By the way, the lawsuit did not result in the court selecting a textbook or curriculum. The court ruled only on the procedure used to select the textbook, not on its merits. They have asked the district to revisit their selection.</i></p>
<p>Which means that if the school board <i>really</i> wants to adopt the curriculum, it can hold a hearing at which a representative of Discovering Math testifies why it would be a good idea to adopt it.  They can then officially consider this evidence and vote in favor of adopting Discovery.  The representative will be happy to provide suggested language for the board&#8217;s justification, language which will purport to show the decision is neither arbitrary nor capricious, and is in fact in the best interest of the students.</p>
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		<title>By: SoundMath</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/02/judge-rejects-seattles-discovery-math/#comment-55010</link>
		<dc:creator>SoundMath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=13468#comment-55010</guid>
		<description>I watched the situation in Seattle develop. I often watched the videos of testimony before the board. Critical information was available, pointed out, yet ignored. The board clearly made an arbitrary and capricious decision when they voted to select Discovery math.

The judge made a decision based on the evidence. This judge&#039;s decision was not based on any arbitrary rationale. The judge was not deciding what kind of curricula could be used. The decision of the court sends the issue back to the school district to revisit the textbook adoption--with the adoption process possibly needing to be conducted again. The court is not in the business of making curriculum decisions for the district and clearly did not do so in this case.

I have read a few legal briefs of cases filed against school districts/education systems. I was not impressed with what I read until I read the brief for this case. It made me sit up and take notice. It is good and presents a solid case. It is not easy when you have to make the case that the district&#039;s decision was arbitrary and capricious. It was a strong case backed with a lot of evidence.

I was also there in court. The plaintiffs&#039; lawyer did an excellent job of presenting the case. The lawyer for the school district had a weak defense and while she responded to the judge&#039; questions, she didn&#039;t answer the questions that were asked.

Read the legal documents for yourselves. It may be enlightening. The brief is a good clean read that lays the case out well The legal documents can be downloaded from the links on the left hand side of the seattle math group website.

http://seattlemathgroup.blogspot.com/

Look for Legal Documents in Textbook Appeal</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I watched the situation in Seattle develop. I often watched the videos of testimony before the board. Critical information was available, pointed out, yet ignored. The board clearly made an arbitrary and capricious decision when they voted to select Discovery math.</p>
<p>The judge made a decision based on the evidence. This judge&#8217;s decision was not based on any arbitrary rationale. The judge was not deciding what kind of curricula could be used. The decision of the court sends the issue back to the school district to revisit the textbook adoption&#8211;with the adoption process possibly needing to be conducted again. The court is not in the business of making curriculum decisions for the district and clearly did not do so in this case.</p>
<p>I have read a few legal briefs of cases filed against school districts/education systems. I was not impressed with what I read until I read the brief for this case. It made me sit up and take notice. It is good and presents a solid case. It is not easy when you have to make the case that the district&#8217;s decision was arbitrary and capricious. It was a strong case backed with a lot of evidence.</p>
<p>I was also there in court. The plaintiffs&#8217; lawyer did an excellent job of presenting the case. The lawyer for the school district had a weak defense and while she responded to the judge&#8217; questions, she didn&#8217;t answer the questions that were asked.</p>
<p>Read the legal documents for yourselves. It may be enlightening. The brief is a good clean read that lays the case out well The legal documents can be downloaded from the links on the left hand side of the seattle math group website.</p>
<p><a href="http://seattlemathgroup.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://seattlemathgroup.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>Look for Legal Documents in Textbook Appeal</p>
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		<title>By: Most Tweeted Articles by Education Experts: MrTweet</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/02/judge-rejects-seattles-discovery-math/#comment-55009</link>
		<dc:creator>Most Tweeted Articles by Education Experts: MrTweet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=13468#comment-55009</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Your article was most tweeted by Education experts in the Twitterverse...&lt;/strong&gt;

Come see other top popular articles surfaced by Education experts!...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Your article was most tweeted by Education experts in the Twitterverse&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Come see other top popular articles surfaced by Education experts!&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Garelick</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/02/judge-rejects-seattles-discovery-math/#comment-55008</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Garelick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=13468#comment-55008</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;With Investigations or CMP and a bad teacher, a motivated student will be frustrated and out of luck. He or she will just have to work on their social skills that year.&lt;/i&gt;

Very true. I would add that with Investigations, CMP and a good teacher, the good teacher will supplant the material with more effective texts. While it is true that there are good and bad ways to teach lessons employing discovery, the structure and content of Investigations and CMP is such that it is inherently bad.  In the case of the Discovering Math series in Seattle, the books were almost devoid of significant content.


By the way, the lawsuit did not result in the court selecting a textbook or curriculum. The court ruled only on the procedure used to select the textbook, not on its merits.  They have asked the district to revisit their selection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>With Investigations or CMP and a bad teacher, a motivated student will be frustrated and out of luck. He or she will just have to work on their social skills that year.</i></p>
<p>Very true. I would add that with Investigations, CMP and a good teacher, the good teacher will supplant the material with more effective texts. While it is true that there are good and bad ways to teach lessons employing discovery, the structure and content of Investigations and CMP is such that it is inherently bad.  In the case of the Discovering Math series in Seattle, the books were almost devoid of significant content.</p>
<p>By the way, the lawsuit did not result in the court selecting a textbook or curriculum. The court ruled only on the procedure used to select the textbook, not on its merits.  They have asked the district to revisit their selection.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike in Texas</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/02/judge-rejects-seattles-discovery-math/#comment-55007</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike in Texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 03:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=13468#comment-55007</guid>
		<description>Follow the money.  What administrator was paid a huge sum of money to recommend Discovery Math.

I&#039;d be willing to bet that an &quot;essential component&quot; is that teachers not use any other Math curriculum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Follow the money.  What administrator was paid a huge sum of money to recommend Discovery Math.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be willing to bet that an &#8220;essential component&#8221; is that teachers not use any other Math curriculum.</p>
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		<title>By: Homeschooling Granny</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/02/judge-rejects-seattles-discovery-math/#comment-55006</link>
		<dc:creator>Homeschooling Granny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=13468#comment-55006</guid>
		<description>An anecdote: This morning my granddaughter came across a discovery type problem among some math exercises. As usual, she immediately became upset and swore she could not do it. We walked through it together, I pointing out all the way that she knew the steps, and she was OK. She thrives on direct instruction but hates to be asked, &quot;What do you think?&quot; She likes firm ground under her feet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An anecdote: This morning my granddaughter came across a discovery type problem among some math exercises. As usual, she immediately became upset and swore she could not do it. We walked through it together, I pointing out all the way that she knew the steps, and she was OK. She thrives on direct instruction but hates to be asked, &#8220;What do you think?&#8221; She likes firm ground under her feet.</p>
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