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	<title>Comments on: What to do about unskilled college students</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/12/what-to-do-about-unskilled-college-students/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:52:13 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/12/what-to-do-about-unskilled-college-students/#comment-53193</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12506#comment-53193</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by kriley19: Joanne Jacobs: What to do about unskilled college students http://bit.ly/6btQxr Full http://bit.ly/4AOPNQ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by kriley19: Joanne Jacobs: What to do about unskilled college students <a href="http://bit.ly/6btQxr" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/6btQxr</a> Full <a href="http://bit.ly/4AOPNQ.." rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/4AOPNQ..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Curtis</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/12/what-to-do-about-unskilled-college-students/#comment-53192</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Curtis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12506#comment-53192</guid>
		<description>Remove all &quot;learning tools&quot; that require electric power.  As soon as you allow a student to watch something happen instead of teaching them how to make something happen, you&#039;ve given up on teaching.  Analyzing videos, instead of analyzing printed text, takes away students&#039; responsibility to think about the subject at hand.

The moment you allow students to use calculators for basic mathematics, you give them permission to not memorize facts.  Something or somebody else has to take the responsibility for being the collective memory.

In a nutshell,  if you can&#039;t teach a student how to read, write or cipher to at least the 8th grade level, using only a dirt floor and a sharpened stick, then you&#039;re not a teacher...you&#039;re a babysitter collecting a salary under false pretenses.

It&#039;s the public&#039;s desire, the creed that says credentials are more important than achievement, that sets the stage for lowered standards.  It&#039;s the educational institution&#039;s fault for trying to accommodate mediocrity. Education is a business to some, but to all, it must set minimum acceptable standards, and enforce them, to establish credibility.  My argument is not how high or low the standard should be set...only that it be established and supported.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remove all &#8220;learning tools&#8221; that require electric power.  As soon as you allow a student to watch something happen instead of teaching them how to make something happen, you&#8217;ve given up on teaching.  Analyzing videos, instead of analyzing printed text, takes away students&#8217; responsibility to think about the subject at hand.</p>
<p>The moment you allow students to use calculators for basic mathematics, you give them permission to not memorize facts.  Something or somebody else has to take the responsibility for being the collective memory.</p>
<p>In a nutshell,  if you can&#8217;t teach a student how to read, write or cipher to at least the 8th grade level, using only a dirt floor and a sharpened stick, then you&#8217;re not a teacher&#8230;you&#8217;re a babysitter collecting a salary under false pretenses.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the public&#8217;s desire, the creed that says credentials are more important than achievement, that sets the stage for lowered standards.  It&#8217;s the educational institution&#8217;s fault for trying to accommodate mediocrity. Education is a business to some, but to all, it must set minimum acceptable standards, and enforce them, to establish credibility.  My argument is not how high or low the standard should be set&#8230;only that it be established and supported.</p>
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		<title>By: Cal</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/12/what-to-do-about-unskilled-college-students/#comment-53191</link>
		<dc:creator>Cal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12506#comment-53191</guid>
		<description>They&#039;ve already dropped standards. You don&#039;t even need to take math to get a Berkeley humanities degree, unless you got below 600 on the SAT (read minority admits, for the most part).

The problem is that not everyone should go to college, obviously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They&#8217;ve already dropped standards. You don&#8217;t even need to take math to get a Berkeley humanities degree, unless you got below 600 on the SAT (read minority admits, for the most part).</p>
<p>The problem is that not everyone should go to college, obviously.</p>
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		<title>By: Depressed</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/12/what-to-do-about-unskilled-college-students/#comment-53190</link>
		<dc:creator>Depressed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12506#comment-53190</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s always dicey for college instructors to compare their students to themselves.  We, after all, are the cream of the crop (supposedly...) and by definition are exactly the sort of people who took school seriously and wanted to succeed at it.

So I don&#039;t think it&#039;s necessarily bad that my current college students are nowhere near as skilled as I was when I was in 11th grade.  I rather expect most of them, now in college, to have learned far less than I did at that point in my life.

No, the sad fact is that my current students -- students who are at what is ostensibly one of the top large universities in the United States -- are by and large nowhere near as skilled as most of my friends were in 11th grade, either.  And I don&#039;t mean just the three or four top students in my class... I mean a wide range of honors students at a rather mediocre high school.  I could go probably fifteen or sixteen people deep in the (approx. 32 student) population of my 11th grade honors English class who could (at that age) utterly wipe the academic floor with over 95% of my current college-level students.  That&#039;s not to say that my high school peers were &lt;i&gt;smarter&lt;/i&gt;, just that they knew more then than my students do now, and were years ahead in their ability to read and write than my students are now.

Of my students, I would say that the number who are minimally prepared for college-level work in terms of their reading and writing ability is somewhere around 15%, with perhaps 5% who are really top flight students.  That&#039;s fifteen percent who have the practiced skill necessary to read the amounts of text needed, to process its meaning, and to turn that meaning into something readable, perhaps while injecting something original into the mix.

Have skill standards changed that much in just twenty years?  It makes me feel like a grouchy old man.  But I know what I&#039;m seeing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s always dicey for college instructors to compare their students to themselves.  We, after all, are the cream of the crop (supposedly&#8230;) and by definition are exactly the sort of people who took school seriously and wanted to succeed at it.</p>
<p>So I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s necessarily bad that my current college students are nowhere near as skilled as I was when I was in 11th grade.  I rather expect most of them, now in college, to have learned far less than I did at that point in my life.</p>
<p>No, the sad fact is that my current students &#8212; students who are at what is ostensibly one of the top large universities in the United States &#8212; are by and large nowhere near as skilled as most of my friends were in 11th grade, either.  And I don&#8217;t mean just the three or four top students in my class&#8230; I mean a wide range of honors students at a rather mediocre high school.  I could go probably fifteen or sixteen people deep in the (approx. 32 student) population of my 11th grade honors English class who could (at that age) utterly wipe the academic floor with over 95% of my current college-level students.  That&#8217;s not to say that my high school peers were <i>smarter</i>, just that they knew more then than my students do now, and were years ahead in their ability to read and write than my students are now.</p>
<p>Of my students, I would say that the number who are minimally prepared for college-level work in terms of their reading and writing ability is somewhere around 15%, with perhaps 5% who are really top flight students.  That&#8217;s fifteen percent who have the practiced skill necessary to read the amounts of text needed, to process its meaning, and to turn that meaning into something readable, perhaps while injecting something original into the mix.</p>
<p>Have skill standards changed that much in just twenty years?  It makes me feel like a grouchy old man.  But I know what I&#8217;m seeing.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/12/what-to-do-about-unskilled-college-students/#comment-53189</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12506#comment-53189</guid>
		<description>&quot;Please colleges do not lower your standards…please government/default K-12 schools raise yours…&quot;

Too late. That process started back in the 80s (maybe before that). As a Prof of 30 years, I started noticing the difference in 1985. It has only worsened since that time. With the colleges&#039; hunger for and addiction to money, it will only worsen over time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Please colleges do not lower your standards…please government/default K-12 schools raise yours…&#8221;</p>
<p>Too late. That process started back in the 80s (maybe before that). As a Prof of 30 years, I started noticing the difference in 1985. It has only worsened since that time. With the colleges&#8217; hunger for and addiction to money, it will only worsen over time.</p>
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		<title>By: Student of History</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/12/what-to-do-about-unskilled-college-students/#comment-53188</link>
		<dc:creator>Student of History</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 21:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12506#comment-53188</guid>
		<description>Do you think the ability to get masters and even Ed.D&#039;s by attending classes one day a month for a couple of years and with no required dissertation makes problems with administrators worse?

You then have a power hungry, inexperienced former teacher who insists everyone call him or her &quot;Doctor&quot;. The degree gives a presumption of knowledge that then gets rebutted anytime they speak on an issue.

I worry that the solid experienced teachers will leave rather than have such a boss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think the ability to get masters and even Ed.D&#8217;s by attending classes one day a month for a couple of years and with no required dissertation makes problems with administrators worse?</p>
<p>You then have a power hungry, inexperienced former teacher who insists everyone call him or her &#8220;Doctor&#8221;. The degree gives a presumption of knowledge that then gets rebutted anytime they speak on an issue.</p>
<p>I worry that the solid experienced teachers will leave rather than have such a boss.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda F</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/12/what-to-do-about-unskilled-college-students/#comment-53187</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ve been saying it for years - the rot starts at the top.  Good administrators = good schools.  Bad administrators can undo the work of the best teachers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been saying it for years &#8211; the rot starts at the top.  Good administrators = good schools.  Bad administrators can undo the work of the best teachers.</p>
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		<title>By: joycem</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/12/what-to-do-about-unskilled-college-students/#comment-53186</link>
		<dc:creator>joycem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12506#comment-53186</guid>
		<description>And Ben F is right as well.  We were having similar discussions at a staff party not too long ago, and the conclusion was that taking educational administrators from the rank of teachers does not always work in the modern setting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Ben F is right as well.  We were having similar discussions at a staff party not too long ago, and the conclusion was that taking educational administrators from the rank of teachers does not always work in the modern setting.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben F</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/12/what-to-do-about-unskilled-college-students/#comment-53185</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12506#comment-53185</guid>
		<description>Ex-Physics Teacher is right about the bosses.  It&#039;s really starting to dawn on me that these guys and their absolutely wrong-headed prescriptions are doing immense damage to our schools.  Think about it: they are, by and large, failed teachers, men (and some women) who are inherently anti-intellectual and uncurious, who crave power and status above truth, and who, lacking a robust liberal arts education, have their heads filled with the gobbledy-gook ginned up by other failed teachers (ed professors and consultants) whose ideas come straight out of their, um, butts... or from business and self-help literature.  Hard for a lay person to believe, but these guys often have no clue what&#039;s good for the schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ex-Physics Teacher is right about the bosses.  It&#8217;s really starting to dawn on me that these guys and their absolutely wrong-headed prescriptions are doing immense damage to our schools.  Think about it: they are, by and large, failed teachers, men (and some women) who are inherently anti-intellectual and uncurious, who crave power and status above truth, and who, lacking a robust liberal arts education, have their heads filled with the gobbledy-gook ginned up by other failed teachers (ed professors and consultants) whose ideas come straight out of their, um, butts&#8230; or from business and self-help literature.  Hard for a lay person to believe, but these guys often have no clue what&#8217;s good for the schools.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention What to do about unskilled college students « Joanne Jacobs -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/12/what-to-do-about-unskilled-college-students/#comment-53184</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention What to do about unskilled college students « Joanne Jacobs -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by kriley19, Jay Rohman. Jay Rohman said: What to do about unskilled college students « Joanne Jacobs http://bit.ly/5SWjeX [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by kriley19, Jay Rohman. Jay Rohman said: What to do about unskilled college students « Joanne Jacobs <a href="http://bit.ly/5SWjeX" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/5SWjeX</a> [...]</p>
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