Comments on: Teach your teachers well http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/ Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:51:22 +0000 hourly 1 By: Betty http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/#comment-51993 Betty Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:26:12 +0000 http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11861#comment-51993 As a sub in public school, I now get to see a lot of teachers from state colleges, and I must say that I am impressed. People can sit on their high horses all they want, but I agree with Homeschooling Granny. Teachers in elite private schools and homeschooling teachers have a lot of advantages. When my son was in private school, students who did not perform or behave according to the school's standards were told to find another school. Of course, those students were then enrolled in public school. As a sub in public school, I now get to see a lot of teachers from state colleges, and I must say that I am impressed. People can sit on their high horses all they want, but I agree with Homeschooling Granny. Teachers in elite private schools and homeschooling teachers have a lot of advantages. When my son was in private school, students who did not perform or behave according to the school’s standards were told to find another school. Of course, those students were then enrolled in public school.

]]> By: allen http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/#comment-51992 allen Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:36:11 +0000 http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11861#comment-51992 Since you haven't been reading my comments Andrew I'll repeat them for your benefit. This'll be on the mid-term so pay attention. There's nothing wrong with ed schools. They are doing what they're supposed to be doing given the reality of public education and not the romanticized illusion that proponents of public education hold in their own minds and insist on as the starting point for any discussion about public education. Teaching skill is not valued in or by the public education system, it's assumed if it's thought of at all. Ed schools thus receive no benefit for turning out well-prepared teachers so they don't. Given those two propositions Ms. Engels ideas will have little effect other then to cost a great deal of money and it would not surprise me all that much that were they implemented they'd result in stupefyingly expensive teacher training - cue the conga lines in the ed schools - which might actually be less effective then what's generated the demands for improvements. Since you haven’t been reading my comments Andrew I’ll repeat them for your benefit. This’ll be on the mid-term so pay attention.

There’s nothing wrong with ed schools. They are doing what they’re supposed to be doing given the reality of public education and not the romanticized illusion that proponents of public education hold in their own minds and insist on as the starting point for any discussion about public education.

Teaching skill is not valued in or by the public education system, it’s assumed if it’s thought of at all. Ed schools thus receive no benefit for turning out well-prepared teachers so they don’t.

Given those two propositions Ms. Engels ideas will have little effect other then to cost a great deal of money and it would not surprise me all that much that were they implemented they’d result in stupefyingly expensive teacher training – cue the conga lines in the ed schools – which might actually be less effective then what’s generated the demands for improvements.

]]> By: D. Jason Fleming (deejf) 's status on Thursday, 05-Nov-09 00:18:32 UTC - Identi.ca http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/#comment-51991 D. Jason Fleming (deejf) 's status on Thursday, 05-Nov-09 00:18:32 UTC - Identi.ca Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:18:40 +0000 http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11861#comment-51991 [...] http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/ a few seconds ago from IdentiFox [...] [...] http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/ a few seconds ago from IdentiFox [...]

]]> By: Lightly Seasoned http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/#comment-51990 Lightly Seasoned Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:21:10 +0000 http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11861#comment-51990 In no particular order: 1. I teach with colleagues who have Ivy degrees. They are not the best in the building. A couple of them are, in fact, quite weak. 2. One of the benefits of teaching in the college credit program is supposedly being mentored by a professor in the English department. He hasn't even bothered to do the requisite observation in years; mentoring high school teachers isn't a high priority for professors. Interferes with writing, which is what they need for tenure. 3. I've always said an internship program of some sort is the way to go, so I agree with that concept. 4. Functional schools do not hire en masse; they don't have those kinds of huge openings every year, so you'd be sending all the candidates into poorly run schools -- might be the goal or might not be... dunno. 5. Education majors are supposed to be lighter on requirements so that the person can double major in subject area. 6. Yes, sometimes ed. schools attract folks just trying to get out with a degree. About half the graduates never end up teaching and probably never had any intention of doing so -- when you get one of these as a cooperating teacher for the student teaching deal it is MISERY. I send them back. I wouldn't characterize the other half by that particular cohort. In no particular order:
1. I teach with colleagues who have Ivy degrees. They are not the best in the building. A couple of them are, in fact, quite weak.
2. One of the benefits of teaching in the college credit program is supposedly being mentored by a professor in the English department. He hasn’t even bothered to do the requisite observation in years; mentoring high school teachers isn’t a high priority for professors. Interferes with writing, which is what they need for tenure.
3. I’ve always said an internship program of some sort is the way to go, so I agree with that concept.
4. Functional schools do not hire en masse; they don’t have those kinds of huge openings every year, so you’d be sending all the candidates into poorly run schools — might be the goal or might not be… dunno.
5. Education majors are supposed to be lighter on requirements so that the person can double major in subject area.
6. Yes, sometimes ed. schools attract folks just trying to get out with a degree. About half the graduates never end up teaching and probably never had any intention of doing so — when you get one of these as a cooperating teacher for the student teaching deal it is MISERY. I send them back. I wouldn’t characterize the other half by that particular cohort.

]]> By: Andrew Bell http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/#comment-51989 Andrew Bell Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:56:03 +0000 http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11861#comment-51989 How did the comments here get so far afield of the referenced paper? How do you all feel about the specific suggestions Ms. Engel proposed? Personally, I like her ideas (I've mentioned most of them here and other places before). But they are costly and shift the monetary burden of bringing a teacher up to snuff from the student-teacher to some other party. I'm not sure we have the will to spend the money to improve the teaching profession, even if it might be the most sure way of improving the learning experience. How did the comments here get so far afield of the referenced paper? How do you all feel about the specific suggestions Ms. Engel proposed?

Personally, I like her ideas (I’ve mentioned most of them here and other places before). But they are costly and shift the monetary burden of bringing a teacher up to snuff from the student-teacher to some other party. I’m not sure we have the will to spend the money to improve the teaching profession, even if it might be the most sure way of improving the learning experience.

]]> By: momof4 http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/#comment-51988 momof4 Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:23:34 +0000 http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11861#comment-51988 Lightly Seasoned: In a post on another site, you said that you learned calc and c++ because of requirements, not individual choice. That seems to be an endorsement of strong requirements. My posts are indended to point out that my experience of ed schools (flagship state U and private U) suggests that they do not necessarily have strong requirements and that they can therefore be comfortable refuges for the academically weak and/or unmotivated. The significant number of teachers in my family would be justifiably outraged if I were to suggest that all ed students fall into that category, but they all agree that weeding out that category would be beneficial. If properly challenged, some of the unmotivated would probably improve. Lightly Seasoned: In a post on another site, you said that you learned calc and c++ because of requirements, not individual choice. That seems to be an endorsement of strong requirements. My posts are indended to point out that my experience of ed schools (flagship state U and private U) suggests that they do not necessarily have strong requirements and that they can therefore be comfortable refuges for the academically weak and/or unmotivated. The significant number of teachers in my family would be justifiably outraged if I were to suggest that all ed students fall into that category, but they all agree that weeding out that category would be beneficial. If properly challenged, some of the unmotivated would probably improve.

]]> By: uberVU - social comments http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/#comment-51987 uberVU - social comments Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:32:39 +0000 http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11861#comment-51987 <strong>Social comments and analytics for this post...</strong> This post was mentioned on Twitter by kriley19: Joanne Jacobs: Teach your teachers well http://bit.ly/2s0WUD Full http://bit.ly/4B2vg2... Social comments and analytics for this post…

This post was mentioned on Twitter by kriley19: Joanne Jacobs: Teach your teachers well http://bit.ly/2s0WUD Full http://bit.ly/4B2vg2...

]]> By: Tweets that mention Teach your teachers well « Joanne Jacobs -- Topsy.com http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/#comment-51986 Tweets that mention Teach your teachers well « Joanne Jacobs -- Topsy.com Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:26:04 +0000 http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11861#comment-51986 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by ? Stephen Ransom, ? Stephen Ransom, kriley19, JoanneLeeJacobs, Larry Colson and others. Larry Colson said: Teach your teachers well « Joanne Jacobs http://rde.me/CRz [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by ? Stephen Ransom, ? Stephen Ransom, kriley19, JoanneLeeJacobs, Larry Colson and others. Larry Colson said: Teach your teachers well « Joanne Jacobs http://rde.me/CRz [...]

]]> By: allen http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/#comment-51985 allen Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:56:41 +0000 http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11861#comment-51985 Paul, In your desire to impute animus to momof4's relating of anecdotes, anecdotes which are certainly supported by the indisputable fact of the lower SAT scores of ed school entrants, you're missing the implication: this is a mutually-agreeable situation. Ed schools have relatively low standards and the low standards of ed schools appeal to students with low SATs. This isn't a tragedy. It's not even a problem that needs addressing. It's a reflection of the demands of the public education system which is, in a very real sense, the customer of ed schools. When the public education system demands, if it ever does, classroom-ready and student-savvy graduates then the ed schools will have to respond. Until that time the ed schools are doing what's expected of them, acting as an impediment to the entry of too many job-seekers into the teacher employment market. If all you are is a speed-bump why exert yourself? Paul,

In your desire to impute animus to momof4′s relating of anecdotes, anecdotes which are certainly supported by the indisputable fact of the lower SAT scores of ed school entrants, you’re missing the implication: this is a mutually-agreeable situation. Ed schools have relatively low standards and the low standards of ed schools appeal to students with low SATs.

This isn’t a tragedy. It’s not even a problem that needs addressing. It’s a reflection of the demands of the public education system which is, in a very real sense, the customer of ed schools. When the public education system demands, if it ever does, classroom-ready and student-savvy graduates then the ed schools will have to respond. Until that time the ed schools are doing what’s expected of them, acting as an impediment to the entry of too many job-seekers into the teacher employment market.

If all you are is a speed-bump why exert yourself?

]]> By: Darren http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/teach-your-teachers-well/#comment-51984 Darren Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:49:29 +0000 http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11861#comment-51984 It is, generally, for secondary teachers, Mark. But elementary teachers *can* get the degree you mentioned. It is, generally, for secondary teachers, Mark. But elementary teachers *can* get the degree you mentioned.

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