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	<title>Comments on: Send fewer students to college</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/send-fewer-students-to-college/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/send-fewer-students-to-college/</link>
	<description>Free-linking and thinking on education by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: Parent2</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/send-fewer-students-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-102132</link>
		<dc:creator>Parent2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11791#comment-102132</guid>
		<description>Well, in 1918, around 17% of 17 year olds graduated from high school. 

It was a different world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, in 1918, around 17% of 17 year olds graduated from high school. </p>
<p>It was a different world.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles R. Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/send-fewer-students-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-102118</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles R. Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11791#comment-102118</guid>
		<description>The law makes it impossible to screen applicants for jobs using inexpensive and valid tests for cognitive skills and content knowledge. So employers use the BA degree for that purpose. They may also prefer to hire slightly older candidates and may look askance at a candidate who chooses not to go to college but prefers to work - no matter what he knows and no matter what his skills.

We could save billions by applying the disparate impact standard to the BA degree - which in itself means little in terms of what a job candidate can do - and encouraging the use of valid paper and pencil standardized tests to screen job candidates. But then, functionally illiterate college graduates would be making the minimum wage and our vast, bloated higher education system would collapse.

I have my grandfather&#039;s 1918 high school textbooks. They are beyond the capability of the typical university graduate today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The law makes it impossible to screen applicants for jobs using inexpensive and valid tests for cognitive skills and content knowledge. So employers use the BA degree for that purpose. They may also prefer to hire slightly older candidates and may look askance at a candidate who chooses not to go to college but prefers to work &#8211; no matter what he knows and no matter what his skills.</p>
<p>We could save billions by applying the disparate impact standard to the BA degree &#8211; which in itself means little in terms of what a job candidate can do &#8211; and encouraging the use of valid paper and pencil standardized tests to screen job candidates. But then, functionally illiterate college graduates would be making the minimum wage and our vast, bloated higher education system would collapse.</p>
<p>I have my grandfather&#8217;s 1918 high school textbooks. They are beyond the capability of the typical university graduate today.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Leonard</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/send-fewer-students-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-102087</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Leonard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11791#comment-102087</guid>
		<description>Look: We are in a recession. That means there are more job-seekers than jobs -- it is an employer&#039;s market. Why would any employer want a high school graduate when he or she could have a college graduate for the same price?

One younger man of our acquaintence has a film degree from USC and substantial graduate credits in black studies. He&#039;s working in a micro-brewery. His academic credentials are in what I consider essentially useless areas of endeavor, but at least they tell an employer he has some modicum of intelligence and the ability to see a project through to some conclusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look: We are in a recession. That means there are more job-seekers than jobs &#8212; it is an employer&#8217;s market. Why would any employer want a high school graduate when he or she could have a college graduate for the same price?</p>
<p>One younger man of our acquaintence has a film degree from USC and substantial graduate credits in black studies. He&#8217;s working in a micro-brewery. His academic credentials are in what I consider essentially useless areas of endeavor, but at least they tell an employer he has some modicum of intelligence and the ability to see a project through to some conclusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Parent2</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/send-fewer-students-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-102085</link>
		<dc:creator>Parent2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11791#comment-102085</guid>
		<description>He graduated in June of 2008?  And he&#039;s employed?  Congratulations!  You know, I&#039;m hearing horror stories of recent graduates--in all majors--not being able to find jobs.  Somewhere around 90%. It has something to do with this worldwide economic crash we&#039;re having.  You all might have heard of that?

The market sets the value of the college degree, not blog chat.  Judging by the decades-long increase in tuition rates which colleges have enjoyed, a completed degree, even if it isn&#039;t in Engineering, is a valuable possession. 

Completing that degree puts him into a fairly elite group.  Many students begin college.  Far fewer students complete it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He graduated in June of 2008?  And he&#8217;s employed?  Congratulations!  You know, I&#8217;m hearing horror stories of recent graduates&#8211;in all majors&#8211;not being able to find jobs.  Somewhere around 90%. It has something to do with this worldwide economic crash we&#8217;re having.  You all might have heard of that?</p>
<p>The market sets the value of the college degree, not blog chat.  Judging by the decades-long increase in tuition rates which colleges have enjoyed, a completed degree, even if it isn&#8217;t in Engineering, is a valuable possession. </p>
<p>Completing that degree puts him into a fairly elite group.  Many students begin college.  Far fewer students complete it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lightly Seasoned</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/send-fewer-students-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-102082</link>
		<dc:creator>Lightly Seasoned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11791#comment-102082</guid>
		<description>Wow.  Even if I were working at Home Depot I&#039;d be happy I went to college.  I wasn&#039;t always the best student, but the degree requirements forced me to learn about all sorts of things I might not have pursued on my own.  I certainly would not have learned calculus or c++ from a book (although others may).  Even literature classes -- which really are just reading -- contextualized and provided new ways of looking at lit and formed the foundation for future reading.

Then again, I&#039;m an English teacher -- they very opposite of anything prgragmatic (and quite happy about it).

Go Fighting Blue Hens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  Even if I were working at Home Depot I&#8217;d be happy I went to college.  I wasn&#8217;t always the best student, but the degree requirements forced me to learn about all sorts of things I might not have pursued on my own.  I certainly would not have learned calculus or c++ from a book (although others may).  Even literature classes &#8212; which really are just reading &#8212; contextualized and provided new ways of looking at lit and formed the foundation for future reading.</p>
<p>Then again, I&#8217;m an English teacher &#8212; they very opposite of anything prgragmatic (and quite happy about it).</p>
<p>Go Fighting Blue Hens.</p>
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		<title>By: Allison</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/send-fewer-students-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-102080</link>
		<dc:creator>Allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 05:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11791#comment-102080</guid>
		<description>--Waste of a degree”? Is that all education means to you, a ticket to financial rewards? I pity you.

Education does not require schooling, not even college level schooling. Learning can be done from books, if one is motivated.

Most college degrees don&#039;t provide that learning anyway. They don&#039;t offer rigorous liberal arts anymore; what few liberal arts degrees they offer can be fulfilled by taking classes where they study film and television. They offer &quot;studies&quot; majors--women&#039;s studies, gender studies, film studies, development studies; they offer communications degrees. They offer drivel.

College education would mean far more if colleges actually enlightened their students. There is little reason to believe that is happening, so yes, the degree is a waste, as is the time and the opportunity cost, not to mention the tuition for whomever footed the bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8211;Waste of a degree”? Is that all education means to you, a ticket to financial rewards? I pity you.</p>
<p>Education does not require schooling, not even college level schooling. Learning can be done from books, if one is motivated.</p>
<p>Most college degrees don&#8217;t provide that learning anyway. They don&#8217;t offer rigorous liberal arts anymore; what few liberal arts degrees they offer can be fulfilled by taking classes where they study film and television. They offer &#8220;studies&#8221; majors&#8211;women&#8217;s studies, gender studies, film studies, development studies; they offer communications degrees. They offer drivel.</p>
<p>College education would mean far more if colleges actually enlightened their students. There is little reason to believe that is happening, so yes, the degree is a waste, as is the time and the opportunity cost, not to mention the tuition for whomever footed the bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/send-fewer-students-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-102076</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11791#comment-102076</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Why spend all that time &amp; money on college just to wind up working at a job he could’ve gotten straight out of high school?&lt;/i&gt;

You&#039;re assuming he&#039;ll stay there. You&#039;re also assuming that reading without discussion will teach him all he needs to know about history. The least informed people about history tend to be those who took it in high school but didn&#039;t take it in college and read popular history books. They know facts, but don&#039;t understand them. They&#039;re nostalgists, rather than historians.

All that said, a student with a history major coupled with an appropriate minor and a good relationship from the first semester with the college career center will generally do fairly well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Why spend all that time &amp; money on college just to wind up working at a job he could’ve gotten straight out of high school?</i></p>
<p>You&#8217;re assuming he&#8217;ll stay there. You&#8217;re also assuming that reading without discussion will teach him all he needs to know about history. The least informed people about history tend to be those who took it in high school but didn&#8217;t take it in college and read popular history books. They know facts, but don&#8217;t understand them. They&#8217;re nostalgists, rather than historians.</p>
<p>All that said, a student with a history major coupled with an appropriate minor and a good relationship from the first semester with the college career center will generally do fairly well.</p>
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		<title>By: Crimson Wife</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/send-fewer-students-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-102074</link>
		<dc:creator>Crimson Wife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11791#comment-102074</guid>
		<description>Jeff the Baptist- exactly! Delaware costs $8500/year in tuition for residents. My husband&#039;s relative could&#039;ve spent one semester&#039;s worth of that on books and a trip around Europe and learned about history. Why spend all that time &amp; money on college just to wind up working at a job he could&#039;ve gotten straight out of high school?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff the Baptist- exactly! Delaware costs $8500/year in tuition for residents. My husband&#8217;s relative could&#8217;ve spent one semester&#8217;s worth of that on books and a trip around Europe and learned about history. Why spend all that time &amp; money on college just to wind up working at a job he could&#8217;ve gotten straight out of high school?</p>
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		<title>By: Vandal Savage</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/send-fewer-students-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-102072</link>
		<dc:creator>Vandal Savage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11791#comment-102072</guid>
		<description>Wahoofive, your last comment jumped the shark. The basic skills everyone needs to understand to make our democratic republic society successful is what a High School Diploma is all about; a College Degree is supposed to be about careers and raising the quality of life, another matter entirely.

However, you do make a good point about broadening people&#039;s minds and the joy of learning. Of course we want everyone to do that! But, many of today&#039;s college majors don&#039;t translate into marketable jobs, and are in subjects you can learn just as easily (and free) using Google and Wikipedia. Like History, for example.

So, I end up agreeing with Jeff The Baptist. A College Degree, unlike a High School Diploma, is a big financial investment - an investment which must pay off with a better-paying job and a raised standard of living to be worth the time and effort.

In the case of that B.A. History guy above, I&#039;d say this: If he graduated with huge student loans, then he screwed himself over. But, if he didn&#039;t graduate with any student loans, you could at least call it a wash...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wahoofive, your last comment jumped the shark. The basic skills everyone needs to understand to make our democratic republic society successful is what a High School Diploma is all about; a College Degree is supposed to be about careers and raising the quality of life, another matter entirely.</p>
<p>However, you do make a good point about broadening people&#8217;s minds and the joy of learning. Of course we want everyone to do that! But, many of today&#8217;s college majors don&#8217;t translate into marketable jobs, and are in subjects you can learn just as easily (and free) using Google and Wikipedia. Like History, for example.</p>
<p>So, I end up agreeing with Jeff The Baptist. A College Degree, unlike a High School Diploma, is a big financial investment &#8211; an investment which must pay off with a better-paying job and a raised standard of living to be worth the time and effort.</p>
<p>In the case of that B.A. History guy above, I&#8217;d say this: If he graduated with huge student loans, then he screwed himself over. But, if he didn&#8217;t graduate with any student loans, you could at least call it a wash&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: wahoofive</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/send-fewer-students-to-college/comment-page-1/#comment-102069</link>
		<dc:creator>wahoofive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11791#comment-102069</guid>
		<description>Jeff, if that&#039;s true we&#039;d better rething K-12 also. After all, if you&#039;re going to be a grocery bagger or a yard maintenance person or a housewife you don&#039;t need to be literate, so why waste good money teaching reading?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, if that&#8217;s true we&#8217;d better rething K-12 also. After all, if you&#8217;re going to be a grocery bagger or a yard maintenance person or a housewife you don&#8217;t need to be literate, so why waste good money teaching reading?</p>
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