<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: School time is money &#8212; and learning</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:51:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: markm</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/#comment-52423</link>
		<dc:creator>markm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12098#comment-52423</guid>
		<description>MR: Many schools got along quite well without nurses - back when they&#039;d trust kids who needed medication to take it themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MR: Many schools got along quite well without nurses &#8211; back when they&#8217;d trust kids who needed medication to take it themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Roulo</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/#comment-52422</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Roulo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12098#comment-52422</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;How much discretion is there in spending on the non-teaching staff vs teaching staff?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

The short answer is, &quot;I don&#039;t know.&quot;

The longer answer is to look at the list of non-teacher employees that I found for one my local K-5 schools a few years back:

&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 librarian
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 school nurse
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 principal
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 0 assistant principals
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 secretary
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 school psychologist
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 &quot;special resources&quot; person
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 &quot;speech&quot; person
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 &quot;technology&quot; person
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 literacy/reading recovery
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 food services person
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 2 ELD people
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 custodian
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 community liason
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 &quot;C.H.A.C&quot; person
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 &quot;CELDT&quot; person
&#160;&#160;&#160;*) 1 catagorical clerk

I don&#039;t know what all of these are (CELDT?), so I can&#039;t be too sure what would happen if these people were missing.  Additionally, there are some district people (about 2 per school, for my district, I think) and people that I know we have (e.g. bus drivers) that I don&#039;t know where/if they are accounted for.

So ...

I&#039;m pretty sure that each school needs a principal, secretary, and janitor.  I&#039;d be very reluctant to lose the librarian.

After this, I suspect it starts mattering what you value.  I don&#039;t think we had a school psychologist at my elementary school when I was going to school (30ish years ago).  Does each school need a nurse?  Beats me.  How about the literacy/reading-recovery specialist?

-Mark Roulo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;How much discretion is there in spending on the non-teaching staff vs teaching staff?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>The short answer is, &#8220;I don&#8217;t know.&#8221;</p>
<p>The longer answer is to look at the list of non-teacher employees that I found for one my local K-5 schools a few years back:</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 librarian<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 school nurse<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 principal<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 0 assistant principals<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 secretary<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 school psychologist<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 &#8220;special resources&#8221; person<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 &#8220;speech&#8221; person<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 &#8220;technology&#8221; person<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 literacy/reading recovery<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 food services person<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 2 ELD people<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 custodian<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 community liason<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 &#8220;C.H.A.C&#8221; person<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 &#8220;CELDT&#8221; person<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*) 1 catagorical clerk</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what all of these are (CELDT?), so I can&#8217;t be too sure what would happen if these people were missing.  Additionally, there are some district people (about 2 per school, for my district, I think) and people that I know we have (e.g. bus drivers) that I don&#8217;t know where/if they are accounted for.</p>
<p>So &#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure that each school needs a principal, secretary, and janitor.  I&#8217;d be very reluctant to lose the librarian.</p>
<p>After this, I suspect it starts mattering what you value.  I don&#8217;t think we had a school psychologist at my elementary school when I was going to school (30ish years ago).  Does each school need a nurse?  Beats me.  How about the literacy/reading-recovery specialist?</p>
<p>-Mark Roulo</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/#comment-52421</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12098#comment-52421</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the explanation, Mark.

How much discretion is there in spending on the non-teaching staff vs teaching staff?  Most of the time I hear about &quot;cutting education funding means laying off teachers&quot; but nothing about support staff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the explanation, Mark.</p>
<p>How much discretion is there in spending on the non-teaching staff vs teaching staff?  Most of the time I hear about &#8220;cutting education funding means laying off teachers&#8221; but nothing about support staff.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Roulo</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/#comment-52420</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Roulo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12098#comment-52420</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;This implies that teacher salaries are about 30/160 the total cost of running the district – less than 20%. Where does the other 80% go?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

This number is plausible.

I&#039;ll use California as an example and numbers from a few years ago ...

Around 2007, California spent about $10K per child for K-12 public education (this is per enrolled child, so kids going to private schools aren&#039;t part of this).

About $7K of that shows up at the school districts and $3K stays at the state level.  Some of this goes to pay for school bonds that were borrowed earlier.  Some goes to pay for state department of education employees.  And some goes elsewhere ... I don&#039;t know the breakdowns.

At my local district, around 80-90% of the money that the district gets goes to personnel.  The rest goes for things like electricity, supplies, gasoline for the school buses.

This leaves about $6,500 per student for salaries and benefits.

About 1/2 the district is teachers an the other half are people doing other things: principal, secretary, janitor, librarian, school nurses, etc.

So ... about $3,250 per student flows to the teachers.  Some chunk of this is benefits (health care, pension, etc).  Maybe $2,500 shows up as paychecks for classroom teachers.

This is 25%.

A check is that the state was spending about $10K per student, the classrooms averaged about 25 kids (20 for the younger grades, 30 for the older kids), which works out to $250,000 per classroom.  25% of $250,000 is $62,500 and the average public school teacher salary in California a few years back was about $55,000 ... so the numbers are roughly correct.

-Mark Roulo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;This implies that teacher salaries are about 30/160 the total cost of running the district – less than 20%. Where does the other 80% go?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>This number is plausible.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll use California as an example and numbers from a few years ago &#8230;</p>
<p>Around 2007, California spent about $10K per child for K-12 public education (this is per enrolled child, so kids going to private schools aren&#8217;t part of this).</p>
<p>About $7K of that shows up at the school districts and $3K stays at the state level.  Some of this goes to pay for school bonds that were borrowed earlier.  Some goes to pay for state department of education employees.  And some goes elsewhere &#8230; I don&#8217;t know the breakdowns.</p>
<p>At my local district, around 80-90% of the money that the district gets goes to personnel.  The rest goes for things like electricity, supplies, gasoline for the school buses.</p>
<p>This leaves about $6,500 per student for salaries and benefits.</p>
<p>About 1/2 the district is teachers an the other half are people doing other things: principal, secretary, janitor, librarian, school nurses, etc.</p>
<p>So &#8230; about $3,250 per student flows to the teachers.  Some chunk of this is benefits (health care, pension, etc).  Maybe $2,500 shows up as paychecks for classroom teachers.</p>
<p>This is 25%.</p>
<p>A check is that the state was spending about $10K per student, the classrooms averaged about 25 kids (20 for the younger grades, 30 for the older kids), which works out to $250,000 per classroom.  25% of $250,000 is $62,500 and the average public school teacher salary in California a few years back was about $55,000 &#8230; so the numbers are roughly correct.</p>
<p>-Mark Roulo</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tweets that mention School time is money — and learning « Joanne Jacobs -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/#comment-52419</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention School time is money — and learning « Joanne Jacobs -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12098#comment-52419</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by kriley19 and kriley19, JoanneLeeJacobs. JoanneLeeJacobs said: School time is money -- and learning: http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by kriley19 and kriley19, JoanneLeeJacobs. JoanneLeeJacobs said: School time is money &#8212; and learning: <a href="http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/" rel="nofollow">http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/</a> [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/#comment-52418</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12098#comment-52418</guid>
		<description>If 12% of the teachers&#039; salary only covers 4 days on instruction, then 100% of the salary is only 32 days of instruction.

This implies that teacher salaries are about 30/160 the total cost of running the district - less than 20%.  Where does the other 80% go?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If 12% of the teachers&#8217; salary only covers 4 days on instruction, then 100% of the salary is only 32 days of instruction.</p>
<p>This implies that teacher salaries are about 30/160 the total cost of running the district &#8211; less than 20%.  Where does the other 80% go?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: California teacher</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/#comment-52417</link>
		<dc:creator>California teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12098#comment-52417</guid>
		<description>A relative of mine is in the Hawaii public school system.  while the furlough Fridays are truly a bad solution to a even worse problem, many of the local teachers (at least on her island) have really done a terrific thing.  They (and others in the community) are giving their own time to offer special day camps on Fridays.  Students can do special math and literacy camps to help boost their skills, and the furlough Friday camps also seem to be the only place left to fit it artistic and cultural education within an already over-crowded academic schedule.  Local artists, musicians, and dancers give their time to help teach students things that are not only culturally relevant to them, but also needed for a well-rounded education.  I applaud the local communities of Hawaii for stepping in to both boost their children&#039;s reading and math skills, fostering a sense of artistry, and showing the children that the community will band together for their benefit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A relative of mine is in the Hawaii public school system.  while the furlough Fridays are truly a bad solution to a even worse problem, many of the local teachers (at least on her island) have really done a terrific thing.  They (and others in the community) are giving their own time to offer special day camps on Fridays.  Students can do special math and literacy camps to help boost their skills, and the furlough Friday camps also seem to be the only place left to fit it artistic and cultural education within an already over-crowded academic schedule.  Local artists, musicians, and dancers give their time to help teach students things that are not only culturally relevant to them, but also needed for a well-rounded education.  I applaud the local communities of Hawaii for stepping in to both boost their children&#8217;s reading and math skills, fostering a sense of artistry, and showing the children that the community will band together for their benefit.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: School time is money — and learning « Joanne Jacobs Site at School</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/school-time-is-money-and-learning/#comment-52416</link>
		<dc:creator>School time is money — and learning « Joanne Jacobs Site at School</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=12098#comment-52416</guid>
		<description>[...] here to see the original: School time is money — and learning « Joanne Jacobs          By admin &#124; category: school &#124; tags: children, city, closed-on-nov, fridays, missing, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] here to see the original: School time is money — and learning « Joanne Jacobs          By admin | category: school | tags: children, city, closed-on-nov, fridays, missing, [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

