<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Not so standardized tests</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/not-so-standardized-tests/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/not-so-standardized-tests/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:51:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/not-so-standardized-tests/#comment-52614</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11803#comment-52614</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by kriley19: Joanne Jacobs: Not so standardized tests http://bit.ly/4AxfS4 Full http://bit.ly/66fSNs...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by kriley19: Joanne Jacobs: Not so standardized tests <a href="http://bit.ly/4AxfS4" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/4AxfS4</a> Full <a href="http://bit.ly/66fSNs.." rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/66fSNs..</a>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/not-so-standardized-tests/#comment-52613</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11803#comment-52613</guid>
		<description>Stacy, non-standardised tests are even worse. If you give two kids non-standardised reading tests and the kids have different results, how can you tell if that&#039;s because the kids have different reading abilities, or if because the tests were different?

And timing, well I think non-timed tests are cruel, conscientious students can drive themselves nuts checking and re-checking questions, reluctant to ever finish.

I am not sure what you mean about so many types of learning and these tests only cater to one. What the tests measure is what was learnt, and what wasn&#039;t, surely? Not how it was learnt.

As for panicking over worrying about not getting through all the questions, why is this something that should never happen to a student? Aren&#039;t we stronger if we confront our fears and learn how to deal with panic? One of my friends at high school was so terrified at having to give a speech during English class that she was crying during it, but she didn&#039;t run away and hide, and now she&#039;s getting the odd acting job. I had a summer job once at a secure unit for brain-injured people and got attacked a few times, and through this I learnt what I am like when the adrenaline hits, and when it goes, which was very useful when copying with my brother having a bad accident later in life when I had to hand over my work commitments while internally panicking about his life.

I am not sure what it means for test questions to be worded so as not to be biased about race. Test questions should not be written in a way that racially, or sexually, or etc insults any one.  Test questions are often going to be culturally-biased, eg most reading tests given in English-speaking countries measure the ability to read English and use the Roman alphabet but I don&#039;t think anyone could pass a non-culturally-biased reading test. But the evidence seems pretty clear that a normal baby of any race can learn any language so I don&#039;t see how reading tests are biased based on race.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stacy, non-standardised tests are even worse. If you give two kids non-standardised reading tests and the kids have different results, how can you tell if that&#8217;s because the kids have different reading abilities, or if because the tests were different?</p>
<p>And timing, well I think non-timed tests are cruel, conscientious students can drive themselves nuts checking and re-checking questions, reluctant to ever finish.</p>
<p>I am not sure what you mean about so many types of learning and these tests only cater to one. What the tests measure is what was learnt, and what wasn&#8217;t, surely? Not how it was learnt.</p>
<p>As for panicking over worrying about not getting through all the questions, why is this something that should never happen to a student? Aren&#8217;t we stronger if we confront our fears and learn how to deal with panic? One of my friends at high school was so terrified at having to give a speech during English class that she was crying during it, but she didn&#8217;t run away and hide, and now she&#8217;s getting the odd acting job. I had a summer job once at a secure unit for brain-injured people and got attacked a few times, and through this I learnt what I am like when the adrenaline hits, and when it goes, which was very useful when copying with my brother having a bad accident later in life when I had to hand over my work commitments while internally panicking about his life.</p>
<p>I am not sure what it means for test questions to be worded so as not to be biased about race. Test questions should not be written in a way that racially, or sexually, or etc insults any one.  Test questions are often going to be culturally-biased, eg most reading tests given in English-speaking countries measure the ability to read English and use the Roman alphabet but I don&#8217;t think anyone could pass a non-culturally-biased reading test. But the evidence seems pretty clear that a normal baby of any race can learn any language so I don&#8217;t see how reading tests are biased based on race.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stacy</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/not-so-standardized-tests/#comment-52612</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11803#comment-52612</guid>
		<description>I do not think that standardized testing is fair. I believe that it is very biased! I don’t understand how they can effectively measure students’ improvements with these tests. I think that having it be timed is the worse part. I consider myself an average person. I believe that I am intelligent and knowledgeable. I am not a great test taker, especially when tests are timed. It takes about 50% of my focus away. When I would take these tests, I would completely panic and worry about not getting through all the questions. This should never happen to a student. The tests should not be timed and not be biased according to race when wording questions. There are so many types of learning and these tests only cater to one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not think that standardized testing is fair. I believe that it is very biased! I don’t understand how they can effectively measure students’ improvements with these tests. I think that having it be timed is the worse part. I consider myself an average person. I believe that I am intelligent and knowledgeable. I am not a great test taker, especially when tests are timed. It takes about 50% of my focus away. When I would take these tests, I would completely panic and worry about not getting through all the questions. This should never happen to a student. The tests should not be timed and not be biased according to race when wording questions. There are so many types of learning and these tests only cater to one.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Don Bemont</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/not-so-standardized-tests/#comment-52611</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Bemont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11803#comment-52611</guid>
		<description>palisadesk&#039;s experiences are nearly identical to my own.

I have graded New York State English Regents exams for many years:

Scores obtained are usually higher than the actual level students perform at, particularly in the middle three quintiles.

Inter-rater reliability is shaky, although ours is not quite as poor as palisadesk reports.

It would be an understatement to say that the test was custom made for political manipulation.  To be honest, the results are corrupted so smoothly in so many ways that I have lost any faith I ever had in evaluations of schools and programs, based on standardized test results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>palisadesk&#8217;s experiences are nearly identical to my own.</p>
<p>I have graded New York State English Regents exams for many years:</p>
<p>Scores obtained are usually higher than the actual level students perform at, particularly in the middle three quintiles.</p>
<p>Inter-rater reliability is shaky, although ours is not quite as poor as palisadesk reports.</p>
<p>It would be an understatement to say that the test was custom made for political manipulation.  To be honest, the results are corrupted so smoothly in so many ways that I have lost any faith I ever had in evaluations of schools and programs, based on standardized test results.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: palisadesk</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/not-so-standardized-tests/#comment-52610</link>
		<dc:creator>palisadesk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11803#comment-52610</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve graded our tests on several occasions (they hire teachers to do it, or they used to -- I am not sure if that is still the case).  It was an interesting experience, to say the least.  The most striking thing was that despite extensive training with anchor paperts and exemplars,  graders still varied widely on the final &quot;level&quot; assigned  each test  (I graded middle school mathematics and third grade reading) Often the levels given ranged from 1 (the lowest) to 4 (the highest) on the same paper.

Zeev&#039;s observations seem not to be true here, since our staff has consistently observed that the scores obtained are usually higher than the actual level the students perform at.  Having been involved in the grading, I can see how the rubrics used can be constructed so that a  weak performance will be graded higher than it deserves.  Inter-rater reliability is only about .6, apparently, on this kind of open-response test.

These tests are very expensive to produce (every year all the items are new) and to grade, since it is done manually.  I am not convinced the results justify the expense, but I can see how they are easier to manipulate for political purposes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve graded our tests on several occasions (they hire teachers to do it, or they used to &#8212; I am not sure if that is still the case).  It was an interesting experience, to say the least.  The most striking thing was that despite extensive training with anchor paperts and exemplars,  graders still varied widely on the final &#8220;level&#8221; assigned  each test  (I graded middle school mathematics and third grade reading) Often the levels given ranged from 1 (the lowest) to 4 (the highest) on the same paper.</p>
<p>Zeev&#8217;s observations seem not to be true here, since our staff has consistently observed that the scores obtained are usually higher than the actual level the students perform at.  Having been involved in the grading, I can see how the rubrics used can be constructed so that a  weak performance will be graded higher than it deserves.  Inter-rater reliability is only about .6, apparently, on this kind of open-response test.</p>
<p>These tests are very expensive to produce (every year all the items are new) and to grade, since it is done manually.  I am not convinced the results justify the expense, but I can see how they are easier to manipulate for political purposes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/not-so-standardized-tests/#comment-52609</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11803#comment-52609</guid>
		<description>In NZ there were open-ended writing questions. The marking was done by teachers and retired teachers (it was voluntary and teachers got paid extra for it, my mother used to do it though she said her main motivation was to find out where her students were ilkely going wrong). The really bad questions in the English exam I sat were multi-choice.

To reduce the risk of the marking being biased, you only put a number on your exam answer booklets, not your name, and the papers were sent to different parts of the country to be marked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In NZ there were open-ended writing questions. The marking was done by teachers and retired teachers (it was voluntary and teachers got paid extra for it, my mother used to do it though she said her main motivation was to find out where her students were ilkely going wrong). The really bad questions in the English exam I sat were multi-choice.</p>
<p>To reduce the risk of the marking being biased, you only put a number on your exam answer booklets, not your name, and the papers were sent to different parts of the country to be marked.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zeev</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/not-so-standardized-tests/#comment-52608</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11803#comment-52608</guid>
		<description>Cal is right. Open (constructed) response questions were put in summative (accountability) assessment to respond to teachers&#039; complaints about the &#039;mindlessness&#039; of multiple choice items. In reality the complaints were mindless, not the multiple choice items. Then other reasons to peddle open-ended items were promoted: testing should be like learning (why?); open-ended items will promote better instruction (yeah, right); open-ended items require more thoughtful responses (sometimes yes, more often than not they don&#039;t). And few more. What really drives teachers is the belief that their students are somehow &quot;better&quot; than tests indicate, and they are forever after that illusive assessment that will finally &quot;prove&quot; that the teachers are OK after all, and it is just the test that was wrongly pointing out that the kids didn&#039;t learn.

Writing is somewhat different and rather unique in academic learning and indeed one needs actually to write to assess it in full. Somewhat similar to performing arts or sports. But this is not true with almost any other academic skill.

BTW -- open ended questions are very helpful in classroom (formative) assessment. Just not in a summative one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cal is right. Open (constructed) response questions were put in summative (accountability) assessment to respond to teachers&#8217; complaints about the &#8216;mindlessness&#8217; of multiple choice items. In reality the complaints were mindless, not the multiple choice items. Then other reasons to peddle open-ended items were promoted: testing should be like learning (why?); open-ended items will promote better instruction (yeah, right); open-ended items require more thoughtful responses (sometimes yes, more often than not they don&#8217;t). And few more. What really drives teachers is the belief that their students are somehow &#8220;better&#8221; than tests indicate, and they are forever after that illusive assessment that will finally &#8220;prove&#8221; that the teachers are OK after all, and it is just the test that was wrongly pointing out that the kids didn&#8217;t learn.</p>
<p>Writing is somewhat different and rather unique in academic learning and indeed one needs actually to write to assess it in full. Somewhat similar to performing arts or sports. But this is not true with almost any other academic skill.</p>
<p>BTW &#8212; open ended questions are very helpful in classroom (formative) assessment. Just not in a summative one.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cardinal Fang</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/not-so-standardized-tests/#comment-52607</link>
		<dc:creator>Cardinal Fang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11803#comment-52607</guid>
		<description>What about testing writing? Don&#039;t we need students to actually write in order to see if they can write?

On the other hand, the SAT writing test, for example, doesn&#039;t seem to be a very good way of testing writing. But Joanne is right-- grading might not be precise, but probably there are few cases where the graders can&#039;t decide whether the student is a totally incapable writer or a skilled writer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about testing writing? Don&#8217;t we need students to actually write in order to see if they can write?</p>
<p>On the other hand, the SAT writing test, for example, doesn&#8217;t seem to be a very good way of testing writing. But Joanne is right&#8211; grading might not be precise, but probably there are few cases where the graders can&#8217;t decide whether the student is a totally incapable writer or a skilled writer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cal</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/not-so-standardized-tests/#comment-52606</link>
		<dc:creator>Cal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11803#comment-52606</guid>
		<description>The joke is that short-answer responses were put on these tests in response to complaints about multiple choice questions--which are, hands down, the most reliable test questions, particularly in the verbal skills area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The joke is that short-answer responses were put on these tests in response to complaints about multiple choice questions&#8211;which are, hands down, the most reliable test questions, particularly in the verbal skills area.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: pm</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/not-so-standardized-tests/#comment-52605</link>
		<dc:creator>pm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11803#comment-52605</guid>
		<description>As a parent of three school age children, I&#039;d prefer to have accountability in my hands.  I&#039;ll contract with whatever testing company delivers what I think best for what I can afford.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a parent of three school age children, I&#8217;d prefer to have accountability in my hands.  I&#8217;ll contract with whatever testing company delivers what I think best for what I can afford.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

