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	<title>Comments on: Common knowledge</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/common-knowledge/</link>
	<description>Free-linking and thinking on education by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: andrei radulescu-banu</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/common-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-102518</link>
		<dc:creator>andrei radulescu-banu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11878#comment-102518</guid>
		<description>Tom West, the problem seems to me that the &#039;education theists&#039; you describe too often take facts as insults. Can you address Ben F&#039;s question, why did the education conference bookshop only included works of an anti-curriculum stripe? Is that intellectually honest of them?

Will Gardner is right on - pedagogical methods based in constructivist theory are not at odds with having the “coherent, knowledge-rich” curriculum that E.D Hirsch espouses. The debate is about the content of the curriculum, not the pedagogy involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom West, the problem seems to me that the &#8216;education theists&#8217; you describe too often take facts as insults. Can you address Ben F&#8217;s question, why did the education conference bookshop only included works of an anti-curriculum stripe? Is that intellectually honest of them?</p>
<p>Will Gardner is right on &#8211; pedagogical methods based in constructivist theory are not at odds with having the “coherent, knowledge-rich” curriculum that E.D Hirsch espouses. The debate is about the content of the curriculum, not the pedagogy involved.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom West</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/common-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-102441</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11878#comment-102441</guid>
		<description>Allen, even if your characterization is correct, given that there&#039;s no way to overthrow the &#039;education theists&#039;, you need to negotiate towards desired results. And the way you negotiate is not by throwing insults.

There may be no guarantee of success of such negotiations, but failure to try is to guarantee failure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allen, even if your characterization is correct, given that there&#8217;s no way to overthrow the &#8216;education theists&#8217;, you need to negotiate towards desired results. And the way you negotiate is not by throwing insults.</p>
<p>There may be no guarantee of success of such negotiations, but failure to try is to guarantee failure.</p>
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		<title>By: allen</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/common-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-102399</link>
		<dc:creator>allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11878#comment-102399</guid>
		<description>Nice try Tom but in an area of academe in which evidence is viewed with suspicion where it isn&#039;t noisily rejected what other way is there to characterize ed schools but as being in the grip of religious fervor? What else could they be but institutions of a secular religion built on the certainty of the truth of their beliefs necessitating attacks on heretics and unbelievers?

Rather then leading on the task of trying to bring understanding to the learning process, and to develop useful metrics to determine the efficacy of various ideas, ed schools are complicit in deterring others from that pursuit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice try Tom but in an area of academe in which evidence is viewed with suspicion where it isn&#8217;t noisily rejected what other way is there to characterize ed schools but as being in the grip of religious fervor? What else could they be but institutions of a secular religion built on the certainty of the truth of their beliefs necessitating attacks on heretics and unbelievers?</p>
<p>Rather then leading on the task of trying to bring understanding to the learning process, and to develop useful metrics to determine the efficacy of various ideas, ed schools are complicit in deterring others from that pursuit.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben F</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/common-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-102389</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11878#comment-102389</guid>
		<description>Tom West,

My experience confirms Hirsch&#039;s &quot;theological institutes&quot; characterization.  At the big California middle school conference two years ago, I noticed that the conference bookshop only included works of an anti-curriculum stripe.  I sought out the person responsible for selecting the books.  She greeted me sunnily, but when I asked if she&#039;d considered stocking E.D. Hirsch her expression turned ugly, as if I&#039;d suggested stocking Luther in a Catholic bookstore.

My education school was indeed a brainwashing factory.  Perhaps there are less theological ed schools out there, but I suspect they&#039;re the exception rather than the norm.  Based on my conversations with fellow educators, the education establishment has done a very good job of preventing teachers from learning much about or even being open to alternative views about education.  It seems to me that groupthink characterizes the scene.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom West,</p>
<p>My experience confirms Hirsch&#8217;s &#8220;theological institutes&#8221; characterization.  At the big California middle school conference two years ago, I noticed that the conference bookshop only included works of an anti-curriculum stripe.  I sought out the person responsible for selecting the books.  She greeted me sunnily, but when I asked if she&#8217;d considered stocking E.D. Hirsch her expression turned ugly, as if I&#8217;d suggested stocking Luther in a Catholic bookstore.</p>
<p>My education school was indeed a brainwashing factory.  Perhaps there are less theological ed schools out there, but I suspect they&#8217;re the exception rather than the norm.  Based on my conversations with fellow educators, the education establishment has done a very good job of preventing teachers from learning much about or even being open to alternative views about education.  It seems to me that groupthink characterizes the scene.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/common-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-102366</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11878#comment-102366</guid>
		<description>I would agree with Hirsch that conversations (both national and local) about what it is we want our children to know and understand happen too infrequently. It&#039;s a tough thing to sort out in such a diverse country. Perhaps these attempts at common standards fail due to a lack of due diligence on the ground--prescribing without first listening.

I don&#039;t think pedagogical methods based in constructivist theory are necessarily at odds with having a &quot;coherent, knowledge-rich&quot; curriculum. In the hands of a skillful teacher, these methods allow for rigorous, deep and well-structured exploration of key concepts and content. In the hands of a poorly-equipped teacher, even the most well-designed curriculum falls flat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree with Hirsch that conversations (both national and local) about what it is we want our children to know and understand happen too infrequently. It&#8217;s a tough thing to sort out in such a diverse country. Perhaps these attempts at common standards fail due to a lack of due diligence on the ground&#8211;prescribing without first listening.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think pedagogical methods based in constructivist theory are necessarily at odds with having a &#8220;coherent, knowledge-rich&#8221; curriculum. In the hands of a skillful teacher, these methods allow for rigorous, deep and well-structured exploration of key concepts and content. In the hands of a poorly-equipped teacher, even the most well-designed curriculum falls flat.</p>
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		<title>By: GENERAL KNOWLEDGE Pt. II &#124; Vocabulation</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/common-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-102365</link>
		<dc:creator>GENERAL KNOWLEDGE Pt. II &#124; Vocabulation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11878#comment-102365</guid>
		<description>[...] Common knowledge « Joanne Jacobs [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Common knowledge « Joanne Jacobs [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention Common knowledge « Joanne Jacobs -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/common-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-102364</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Common knowledge « Joanne Jacobs -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11878#comment-102364</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Liz Ditz and kriley19, JoanneLeeJacobs. JoanneLeeJacobs said: Common knowledge: Hirsch&#039;s &quot;Making (and educating) of Americans.&quot; http://bit.ly/xhw06 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Liz Ditz and kriley19, JoanneLeeJacobs. JoanneLeeJacobs said: Common knowledge: Hirsch&#39;s &quot;Making (and educating) of Americans.&quot; <a href="http://bit.ly/xhw06" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/xhw06</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tom West</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/common-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-102361</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joannejacobs.com/?p=11878#comment-102361</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Hirsch has been rejected by the education establishment&lt;/i&gt;

Well, if his quote is accurate:

&lt;i&gt;“theological institutes where heresy is viewed as an evil that its members have a civic duty to suppress...&lt;/i&gt;

then it&#039;s small wonder.  He&#039;s doing the classic &quot;lets characterize the entire group with the opinions of the farthest fringe&quot;.  Honestly, this sounds like the typical attempt to garner as many book-purchases as possible, rather than an attempt to actually help a good policy succeed.

Which is sad, because I think he&#039;s onto an important idea.

Next up, a book reveals the Democrats are proto-communists, and another book unveils the Republicans as fascists. (And please, if you believe the Democrats really are proto-communists or the Republicans really are fascists, don&#039;t chime in :-))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Hirsch has been rejected by the education establishment</i></p>
<p>Well, if his quote is accurate:</p>
<p><i>“theological institutes where heresy is viewed as an evil that its members have a civic duty to suppress&#8230;</i></p>
<p>then it&#8217;s small wonder.  He&#8217;s doing the classic &#8220;lets characterize the entire group with the opinions of the farthest fringe&#8221;.  Honestly, this sounds like the typical attempt to garner as many book-purchases as possible, rather than an attempt to actually help a good policy succeed.</p>
<p>Which is sad, because I think he&#8217;s onto an important idea.</p>
<p>Next up, a book reveals the Democrats are proto-communists, and another book unveils the Republicans as fascists. (And please, if you believe the Democrats really are proto-communists or the Republicans really are fascists, don&#8217;t chime in <img src='http://www.joannejacobs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
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