Comments on: Is PISA the best test?

By: Lou Gots

Lou Gots — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:42:54 +0000

In all fairness, the question does ask for the “best estimate.” Very clearly, had the question asked for a definite answer, the correct response would have been “insufficient data,” as many of us have already observed.

Nonetheless, fairness goes only so far; I concur that the question is inappropriate for being overly culture-specific.

By: ricki

ricki — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:29:19 +0000

No, I never willingly would attend a rock concert. (nor do I willingly fly).

I could stand in the middle of one of the square meter sampling frames I use, stand another person in an adjacent one, and we could touch each other with extended arms. My “armspan” is close to 6 feet. A square meter really is not that large. (Regardless of whether you’re an obese person or not. I’m not obese but I am fairly tall for a woman and have long arms and legs, and have a pretty extreme sense of what is “comfortable” personal space)

And it is kind of a senseless question. And it does assume that the test subjects have been to a rock concert. And that everyone considers “crowding” to be to the same degree. Or has a good visualization of how tightly people will allow themselves to be packed.

Would a followup question be: In the event of a natural disaster, how many people would be trampled to death in the process of trying to get out of the field?

By: Michael E. Lopez, Esq.

Michael E. Lopez, Esq. — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:30:42 +0000

That is a HORRIBLE question.

In addition to the problems aforesaid, there’s also the question of whether the field in question is the only place where there are audience members.

There is a HUGE difference between “how many people attended the concert” and “how many audience members are on the field”.

And let’s look at what is being asked, really. They can’t ask how many people are on the field, becase there’s flat-out not enough information. They can’t even ask what the best estimate is, because there isn’t enough information to definitively say which estimate is better.

They’re reduced to asking which of the answers is MOST LIKELY to be the best estimate. That’s pathetic, and phrasing like that is a sure sign that your question sucks so badly you are forced to hedge and make it even worse.

Now I am no slouch at standardized tests. I know the answer to this question and I know why they are asking it. But nonetheless, whoever wrote this question had their head up their arse.

By: Nels

Nels — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:46:20 +0000

Based on what Americans are looking like these days, one square meter per person sounds about right.

By: Bart

Bart — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:29:29 +0000

I’m guessing that airliners cram in about two people per square meter.

By: Cardinal Fang

Cardinal Fang — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:40:29 +0000

One person per square meter? That would mean you couldn’t extend your arm and touch the person in front of you, even with the tips of your finger. Forget the rock concert– no standing room anywhere is that spacious. Five thousand is a bad answer. Even for Americans.

By: Stephen Downes

Stephen Downes — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:36:12 +0000

Like Matthews, you don’t know (a) how big a square meter is, and (b) how crowded it is at rock concerts.

By: Julie

Julie — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:06:50 +0000

“5,000? is selected by so many people not because they really think “only one person per square meter”, I think, but because they immediately do the “what’s the area?” calculation and assume that that must be the question being asked.

That explains it, I think. And that’s really a very dumb mistake to make.

By: Julie

Julie — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:04:23 +0000

Eh, I found the right answer and didn’t think it was that hard. SAT prep tells you to not read more into a question than what is explicitly there. They are essentially asking how many people can be crammed into that sort of space, personal space be damned. You only need to realize that your average person does not take up a square meter of space on his own. Excusing American children’s poor showing on the test by saying it comes down to cultural differences is a poor excuse, IMO.

With most word problems, you have to disregard questions of practicality and real-world applications. Come on, how many of us have done problems that go like this: “Sam has an entire pumpkin pie all to himself. He wants to eat exactly 1/4 of the pie right now, 1/8 for tonight’s dinner, save 1/6 of it for his lunch tomorrow. How much pie will then be left over?” Who in the real world eats like that?

By: Doug Sundseth

Doug Sundseth — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:52:36 +0000

The correct answer to the sample question is, “Whatever the Fire Marshall allows in that jurisdiction.” The concert will sell as many tickets as the promoter is allowed to sell.

IME, a sold-out concert in a football stadium will have something like 50,000 attendees, but that includes the stands, of course. I’ll note that the question does not specify that the only area reserved for fans is the field, though a charitable interpretation would assume that.

Any question that requires charitable interpretations and specific unstated assumptions of this sort is bad, obviously.