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	<title>Comments on: U.S. is average on international tests</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/u-s-is-average-on-international-tests/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: Margo/Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/u-s-is-average-on-international-tests/#comment-49765</link>
		<dc:creator>Margo/Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=10747#comment-49765</guid>
		<description>Mark:

Rank ordering is far less important than relationship to the mean. The US tends to be at or below the mean scores on international tests, as a rule. Also as a general rule, the countries at the top tend to outscore us with both their highest and lowest scorers--and the gap from top to bottom tends to be narrower.

The typical denial is that they don&#039;t test, or educate everyone, however this is really no longer the case. Many systems still differentiate at high school (as we do, when you consider not only career-tech vs college prep options, but also the wide variance in course patterns and content). This is why PISA is administered to 15 year olds--found to be the age at which content is widely differentiated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark:</p>
<p>Rank ordering is far less important than relationship to the mean. The US tends to be at or below the mean scores on international tests, as a rule. Also as a general rule, the countries at the top tend to outscore us with both their highest and lowest scorers&#8211;and the gap from top to bottom tends to be narrower.</p>
<p>The typical denial is that they don&#8217;t test, or educate everyone, however this is really no longer the case. Many systems still differentiate at high school (as we do, when you consider not only career-tech vs college prep options, but also the wide variance in course patterns and content). This is why PISA is administered to 15 year olds&#8211;found to be the age at which content is widely differentiated.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Roulo</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/u-s-is-average-on-international-tests/#comment-49764</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Roulo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Fourth graders in eight of the 35 other countries taking the test scored higher on average than 4th graders in the United States. Eighth graders in five of the 47 other participating countries performed better than U.S. students.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This puts the US 4th graders tied for 9th (out of 35), and thus probably in the top 1/3rd.

The US 8th graders seem tied for 6th (out of 47), and so probably in the top 20%.

I wouldn&#039;t describe this as &quot;average.&quot;

But ... if this *IS* average, then the mirror scores should be described as average, too.  So, the next time the US 4th graders are outside the bottom 1/3, this is &quot;average&quot; and the next time the US 8th graders are outside the bottom 20% this should be average.

It won&#039;t be reported that way, though :-(

And not being consistent is both unfair and inaccurate.

-Mark Roulo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Fourth graders in eight of the 35 other countries taking the test scored higher on average than 4th graders in the United States. Eighth graders in five of the 47 other participating countries performed better than U.S. students.
</p></blockquote>
<p>This puts the US 4th graders tied for 9th (out of 35), and thus probably in the top 1/3rd.</p>
<p>The US 8th graders seem tied for 6th (out of 47), and so probably in the top 20%.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t describe this as &#8220;average.&#8221;</p>
<p>But &#8230; if this *IS* average, then the mirror scores should be described as average, too.  So, the next time the US 4th graders are outside the bottom 1/3, this is &#8220;average&#8221; and the next time the US 8th graders are outside the bottom 20% this should be average.</p>
<p>It won&#8217;t be reported that way, though <img src='http://www.joannejacobs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>And not being consistent is both unfair and inaccurate.</p>
<p>-Mark Roulo</p>
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