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	<title>Comments on: Getting into college on personality</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/getting-into-college-on-personality/</link>
	<description>Free-linking and thinking on education by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/getting-into-college-on-personality/comment-page-1/#comment-99907</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=10740#comment-99907</guid>
		<description>This is the sort of thing that worries me, partly because I think the more geeky scientists and inventors getting top-notch educations, the better, and I wonder how many highly-skilled but not well-rounded kids are going to miss an education that could really benefit them -- and the rest of us -- tremendously because of the contributions they could make.  

And it doubly worries me as a mom whose 9 year-old son is scheduled for neuropyschological testing (i.e., Autism/Asperger&#039;s).  Unless things change radically in the next 8 years, he&#039;ll be in big trouble, because even if his grades are OK, he shows every sign now of being unable to write a self-reflective essay of any kind, least of all a suck-up bullshitty one.  

Anyway, this is an old post, so I&#039;m hardly furthering a discussion, but right now my best hope is for him (and kids like him) to declare that the disability accomodation he requires is exemption from the essay requirement.  Ha!  Maybe that&#039;s what every kid should do who butts up against the &quot;well-roundedness&quot; mantra.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the sort of thing that worries me, partly because I think the more geeky scientists and inventors getting top-notch educations, the better, and I wonder how many highly-skilled but not well-rounded kids are going to miss an education that could really benefit them &#8212; and the rest of us &#8212; tremendously because of the contributions they could make.  </p>
<p>And it doubly worries me as a mom whose 9 year-old son is scheduled for neuropyschological testing (i.e., Autism/Asperger&#8217;s).  Unless things change radically in the next 8 years, he&#8217;ll be in big trouble, because even if his grades are OK, he shows every sign now of being unable to write a self-reflective essay of any kind, least of all a suck-up bullshitty one.  </p>
<p>Anyway, this is an old post, so I&#8217;m hardly furthering a discussion, but right now my best hope is for him (and kids like him) to declare that the disability accomodation he requires is exemption from the essay requirement.  Ha!  Maybe that&#8217;s what every kid should do who butts up against the &#8220;well-roundedness&#8221; mantra.</p>
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		<title>By: bandit</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/getting-into-college-on-personality/comment-page-1/#comment-99618</link>
		<dc:creator>bandit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=10740#comment-99618</guid>
		<description>It is all about $$$$$$</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is all about $$$$$$</p>
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		<title>By: momof4</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/getting-into-college-on-personality/comment-page-1/#comment-99598</link>
		<dc:creator>momof4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=10740#comment-99598</guid>
		<description>If schools were really interested in scholastic ability, the SAT I/SAT II/AP/IB test scores would do the job.  Clearly, they are interested in lots of other things.  Never mind that geeky student X might discover the next important vaccine or that dweeby student Y might develop a new non-fossil fuel... even if they  didn&#039;t do all their worksheets while being bored in high school...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If schools were really interested in scholastic ability, the SAT I/SAT II/AP/IB test scores would do the job.  Clearly, they are interested in lots of other things.  Never mind that geeky student X might discover the next important vaccine or that dweeby student Y might develop a new non-fossil fuel&#8230; even if they  didn&#8217;t do all their worksheets while being bored in high school&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: KateC</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/getting-into-college-on-personality/comment-page-1/#comment-99590</link>
		<dc:creator>KateC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=10740#comment-99590</guid>
		<description>But Marilee Jones was actually very good at her job. MIT should have kept her on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Marilee Jones was actually very good at her job. MIT should have kept her on.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/getting-into-college-on-personality/comment-page-1/#comment-99578</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=10740#comment-99578</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately for me, my suburban, white bread upbringing didn&#039;t allow me to dredge up many of these &quot;overcoming adversity&quot; stories. Poor me... I didn&#039;t get picked for the school musical in 6th grade...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately for me, my suburban, white bread upbringing didn&#8217;t allow me to dredge up many of these &#8220;overcoming adversity&#8221; stories. Poor me&#8230; I didn&#8217;t get picked for the school musical in 6th grade&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Greifer</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/getting-into-college-on-personality/comment-page-1/#comment-99569</link>
		<dc:creator>Greifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 04:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=10740#comment-99569</guid>
		<description>--I think that it is likely that admissions people are not only unlikely to be strong leaders or highly creative, but that they are also unlikely to have been serious, highly-achieving students.

In MIT&#039;s case, the head of admissions was not merely not serious nor high achieving, but an actual fraud:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/27/us/27mit.html?_r=1&amp;em&amp;ex=1177819200&amp;en=bf6ba9ca0694746b&amp;ei=5087%0A

Marilee Jones, the dean of admissions at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, became well known for urging stressed-out students competing for elite colleges to calm down and stop trying to be perfect. Yesterday she admitted that she had fabricated her own educational credentials, and resigned after nearly three decades at M.I.T. Officials of the institute said she did not have even an undergraduate degree.

“I misrepresented my academic degrees when I first applied to M.I.T. 28 years ago and did not have the courage to correct my résumé when I applied for my current job or at any time since,” Ms. Jones said in a statement posted on the institute’s Web site. “I am deeply sorry for this and for disappointing so many in the M.I.T. community and beyond who supported me, believed in me, and who have given me extraordinary opportunities.”

Ms. Jones said that she would not make any other public comment “at this personally difficult time” and that she hoped her privacy would be respected.

Ms. Jones, 55, originally from Albany, had on various occasions represented herself as having degrees from three upstate New York institutions: Albany Medical College, Union College and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. In fact, she had no degrees from any of those places, or anywhere else, M.I.T. officials said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8211;I think that it is likely that admissions people are not only unlikely to be strong leaders or highly creative, but that they are also unlikely to have been serious, highly-achieving students.</p>
<p>In MIT&#8217;s case, the head of admissions was not merely not serious nor high achieving, but an actual fraud:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/27/us/27mit.html?_r=1&amp;em&amp;ex=1177819200&amp;en=bf6ba9ca0694746b&amp;ei=5087" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/27/us/27mit.html?_r=1&amp;em&amp;ex=1177819200&amp;en=bf6ba9ca0694746b&amp;ei=5087</a></p>
<p>Marilee Jones, the dean of admissions at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, became well known for urging stressed-out students competing for elite colleges to calm down and stop trying to be perfect. Yesterday she admitted that she had fabricated her own educational credentials, and resigned after nearly three decades at M.I.T. Officials of the institute said she did not have even an undergraduate degree.</p>
<p>“I misrepresented my academic degrees when I first applied to M.I.T. 28 years ago and did not have the courage to correct my résumé when I applied for my current job or at any time since,” Ms. Jones said in a statement posted on the institute’s Web site. “I am deeply sorry for this and for disappointing so many in the M.I.T. community and beyond who supported me, believed in me, and who have given me extraordinary opportunities.”</p>
<p>Ms. Jones said that she would not make any other public comment “at this personally difficult time” and that she hoped her privacy would be respected.</p>
<p>Ms. Jones, 55, originally from Albany, had on various occasions represented herself as having degrees from three upstate New York institutions: Albany Medical College, Union College and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. In fact, she had no degrees from any of those places, or anywhere else, M.I.T. officials said.</p>
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		<title>By: Ragnarok</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/getting-into-college-on-personality/comment-page-1/#comment-99565</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragnarok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=10740#comment-99565</guid>
		<description>Looks like momof4 was correct:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Mantella holds a bachelor&#039;s degree and a master&#039;s of social work degree from Syracuse University, and a doctorate in educational administration from Michigan State University.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Blast!  Wish I could exchange my hard science degrees for Dr. Mantella&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like momof4 was correct:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Mantella holds a bachelor&#8217;s degree and a master&#8217;s of social work degree from Syracuse University, and a doctorate in educational administration from Michigan State University.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Blast!  Wish I could exchange my hard science degrees for Dr. Mantella&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: KateC</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/getting-into-college-on-personality/comment-page-1/#comment-99563</link>
		<dc:creator>KateC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=10740#comment-99563</guid>
		<description>I find this so odd. I had killer SATs, back in the 70s, not so killer grades, and I got into an Ivy because I was (a) female and (b) from a Western state that didn&#039;t send many kids east. I did better than fine--Phi Beta Kappa as a Jr., etc. Would my alma mater take me today? No way.

My son, with killer SATs, long on personality, short on grades and teacher approval, could go to community college, but is going to Central European University in Budapest, instead. Why? He&#039;s not a minority, he has no victim story, we&#039;re not living in our car. He did a year in Hungary after being booted from his crunchy-granola high school (bad attitude) as an AFS student, then did a year at a California community college. 

Would a US school take him? Maybe, but I doubt it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find this so odd. I had killer SATs, back in the 70s, not so killer grades, and I got into an Ivy because I was (a) female and (b) from a Western state that didn&#8217;t send many kids east. I did better than fine&#8211;Phi Beta Kappa as a Jr., etc. Would my alma mater take me today? No way.</p>
<p>My son, with killer SATs, long on personality, short on grades and teacher approval, could go to community college, but is going to Central European University in Budapest, instead. Why? He&#8217;s not a minority, he has no victim story, we&#8217;re not living in our car. He did a year in Hungary after being booted from his crunchy-granola high school (bad attitude) as an AFS student, then did a year at a California community college. </p>
<p>Would a US school take him? Maybe, but I doubt it.</p>
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		<title>By: corwin</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/getting-into-college-on-personality/comment-page-1/#comment-99561</link>
		<dc:creator>corwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=10740#comment-99561</guid>
		<description>I have generally crushed standardized tests during my life, in part because I prepared /studied really hard for them . I just took a Boards (medicine) re cert where I didn&#039;t study. I&#039;m a little worried whether I passed. Still, this is a bit like the NYT columnists decrying the lack of a &quot;leadership&quot; test on the RI firefighters test.

Evidently, intelligence or even knowledge can&#039;t be measured, but other stuff can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have generally crushed standardized tests during my life, in part because I prepared /studied really hard for them . I just took a Boards (medicine) re cert where I didn&#8217;t study. I&#8217;m a little worried whether I passed. Still, this is a bit like the NYT columnists decrying the lack of a &#8220;leadership&#8221; test on the RI firefighters test.</p>
<p>Evidently, intelligence or even knowledge can&#8217;t be measured, but other stuff can.</p>
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		<title>By: Darren</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/08/getting-into-college-on-personality/comment-page-1/#comment-99548</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=10740#comment-99548</guid>
		<description>Anything to avoid looking at intellect and academic ability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anything to avoid looking at intellect and academic ability.</p>
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