Comments on: Union says ‘no’ to AP bonus

By: Engineer-Poet

Engineer-Poet — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:20:48 +0000

s/shoos/schools/

By: Engineer-Poet

Engineer-Poet — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:20:17 +0000

Pharmacists teaching chemistry, engineers teaching calculus… my goodness, if that worked, people might get the impression that ed schoos and teacher’s unions didn’t contribute anything of value!

By: momof4

momof4 — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:10:17 +0000

I read a suggestion that small rural schools might look to non-teachers in the community to cover hard-to-find courses; a pharmacist teaching chemistry was a specific suggestion, since even rural areas usually have a pharmacy within reasonable distance. Of course, it’s not likely to happen if such people are made to take ed courses and deal with all the educrat blob requirements.

By: Liz in PA

Liz in PA — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:19:21 +0000

I’d like to jump in on for “shouldn’t be hard to find teachers” idea. I was part of a proposal team for the NMSI grant (not in PA, for the record). In that state, especially in rural/poor districts, we had lots of principals and teachers saying “I’m not interested in AP b/c our kids can’t do it…and our district doesn’t have the money to risk on that anyhow.” THAT’s what the NMSI structure is really targeted at – and effectively so. In those situations you have to get everyone willing to “take a flyer” on AP–students, teachers, and admins. The idea is that over time, the school culture will change from “can’t” to “can” and then you won’t need the (fairly small, actually) cash incentives.

Also, for the record, the NMSI program is a scale-up of a Texas program, which has shown impressive results particularly with minority students. I think they’ve been surprised at the union issues encountered in their grantee states, though – apparently the union situation in Texas was much different.

By: Ragnarok

Ragnarok — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:25:04 +0000

“BTW I love your blog!”

Mah blog? I don’t gots no blog.

By: Ragnarok

Ragnarok — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:45:47 +0000

The problem with defending an indefensible position, Mme. Lightly Seasoned, is that you very quickly lose any room to manoeuvre.

“…someone with a Masters [sic] in their subject area, which is a requirement for teaching AP and is already “worth more” on the salary scale.”

So someone with a “Masters” is worth more than someone without; it’s reasonable to argue that some such people are worth more than others…

And bang! goes your argument

By: allen

allen — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:41:54 +0000

There ya go Ragnarok. One teacher’s as good as another, as interchangeable as gears in a huge, indifferent machine.

And that’s a good thing.

By: Lightly Seasoned

Lightly Seasoned — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:48:41 +0000

Yes, Ragnarok, as someone who teaches in the AP program and coordinates closely with other teachers who teach in the AP program (incl. Calc, Chem, and Physics), I’m saying it is no big deal. The material is advanced for a *high school student*, not a college graduate, and certainly not someone with a Masters in their subject area, which is a requirement for teaching AP and is already “worth more” on the salary scale. Now, what is your personal experience as an AP teacher? How many sections have you taught, how have your kids scored? What type of teaching experience have you found the most valuable in designing and implementing these courses?
BTW I love your blog!

By: Lightly Seasoned

Lightly Seasoned — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:14:34 +0000

By: Ragnarok

Ragnarok — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:02:43 +0000

Per Lightly Seasoned:

“Lots of misconceptions here. First, teaching AP does not necessarily require a higher skill level. … For AP, I need to have a more thorough knowledge of my subject area (not a big deal);”

Hmm, let’s take calculus. Are you really saying that understanding Taylor-Maclaurin expansions or Rolle’s Mean-Value Theorem ain’t much different from the standard calculus courses? I doubt it. For that matter, I doubt that most math teachers understand limits – and limits are fundamental in calculus.

The “…more thorough knowledge of my subject area…” can be a very big deal indeed.

And those who can understand these things are worth more than those who can’t.