Comments on: Does it have to be about race?

By: Ben

Ben — Thu, 07 May 2009 07:58:21 +0000

“Unless these differences are explained by race, the only explanation, then, is that these differences are explained by racism.”

Stephen, funny that this racist system results in East Asians outperforming whites. Why, assuming you believe in evolution, would you assume complete group equality?

For instance, in 2007 it was found that 7% of the genome had undergone recent selection (see ‘The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution’ for a discussion of this). For example, you see new versions of SLC6A4, a serotonin transporter, in Europeans and Asians. There’s a new version of a gene (DBA1) that shapes the development of the layers of the cerebral cortex in east Asia.

By: Dick Eagleson

Dick Eagleson — Tue, 05 May 2009 16:44:25 +0000

Richard, Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction to the piece too. Anyone interested in a piece of actual research on this subject that's full of like, you know, numbers and stuff can try this.

By: Margo/Mom

Margo/Mom — Tue, 05 May 2009 16:42:08 +0000

“By whom? Doesn’t say. Evidence? May be in the studies but not even hinted at by the article. The article makes it all seem like the quoted individual’s opinion. Maybe there’s evidence….”

Richard–don’t know what article you were reading. I counted citations of at least seven researchers, including Ogbu. It came from the New York Times–where journalistic style does not call for a bibliography. It is easier for me here to post a link to the NYTimes, however, than to try to point people to a number of publications that are not so publicly available (refereed journals, published books). BTW–I think Ogbu leaped to some conclusions in Shaker Heights, but I have read other works of his with which I had far fewer concerns.

It seemed to me as though the article’s author was presenting a fairly balanced report of what researchers are saying–rather than editorializing.

By: Richard Aubrey

Richard Aubrey — Tue, 05 May 2009 14:55:59 +0000

Margo.
Interesting article. I like the frequent use of the passive.

“are seen as….” By whom? Doesn’t say. Evidence? May be in the studies but not even hinted at by the article. The article makes it all seem like the quoted individual’s opinion. Maybe there’s evidence….

By: Richard Aubrey

Richard Aubrey — Tue, 05 May 2009 14:51:11 +0000

stacy.
We can’t pretend. Cultures are equal. They just ARE! Except for the standard US culture which is perfectly vile.
And some cultures can be associated with race. That redneck/white trash and inner-city hood cultures are similar means nothing. Discredit that culture and you’re a racist, unless you take ostentatious pains to make it clear you’re not talking about the ‘hood. Even then, you might be. Depends on what others need to make of what you say.

By: stacy

stacy — Tue, 05 May 2009 13:17:42 +0000

“And unfortunately, in the U.S., examples abound of subcultures, both racial and non-racial, that fall into this category.”

Yep, and if we could just stop pretending that these cultures are “equal”, we might actually promote educational standards that prepare kids adequately for work or college and don’t promote ignorance as culture.

By: Vandal Savage

Vandal Savage — Tue, 05 May 2009 01:33:36 +0000

Elizabeth is right. Whether ‘redneck’, ‘ghetto’, (or whatever designation has been given to similar subcultures of other races), a culture that admires ignorance and lack of class is, well, a culture that admires ignorance and lack of class.

And unfortunately, in the U.S., examples abound of subcultures, both racial and non-racial, that fall into this category.

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Mon, 04 May 2009 20:52:45 +0000

We moved from a middle class city in So Cal to a blue collar/Navy area in Washington State. The Blue Collar school my DD went to for a month until I pulled her out was close to 100% white. It had a white trash culture (distain for learning, high proportion of out of wedlock births, tattoed females, etc)not a whole lot of difference between that and the inner city.

By: Margo/Mom

Margo/Mom — Mon, 04 May 2009 18:53:48 +0000

See here http://www.racematters.org/whyareblackstudentslagging.htm for a decent discussion of Ogbu, vs other researcher who both agree and disagree.

By: Richard Aubrey

Richard Aubrey — Mon, 04 May 2009 18:34:29 +0000

momof4.

McWhorter tells of the same thing while he was doing well in Shaker Heights. Where, of all places, that sort of thing should be, one would expect, absent.