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	<title>Comments on: Universities bid for students</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/01/universities-bid-for-students/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: Andy Freeman</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/01/universities-bid-for-students/#comment-43062</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 18:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=7158#comment-43062</guid>
		<description>&gt; What’s your degree become worth in the job market if the college you went to one year simply ceases to exist?

The worth of a degree does not depend on the continued existence of the institution that granted it.  Maybe you can&#039;t get a copy of your transcript, but I&#039;ve never been asked for one.

However, to the extent that that&#039;s a problem, it doesn&#039;t justify keeping an unneeded college open.  Moreover, the problem of too many colleges is actually a too much college capacity problem, which can be addressed by shrinking colleges instead of closing them.

AFAIK, few folks get degrees in one year, but I don&#039;t see why that&#039;s relevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; What’s your degree become worth in the job market if the college you went to one year simply ceases to exist?</p>
<p>The worth of a degree does not depend on the continued existence of the institution that granted it.  Maybe you can&#8217;t get a copy of your transcript, but I&#8217;ve never been asked for one.</p>
<p>However, to the extent that that&#8217;s a problem, it doesn&#8217;t justify keeping an unneeded college open.  Moreover, the problem of too many colleges is actually a too much college capacity problem, which can be addressed by shrinking colleges instead of closing them.</p>
<p>AFAIK, few folks get degrees in one year, but I don&#8217;t see why that&#8217;s relevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Captain Sisko</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/01/universities-bid-for-students/#comment-43061</link>
		<dc:creator>Captain Sisko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=7158#comment-43061</guid>
		<description>Andy,

I think you&#039;re right; we DO have an oversupply of colleges. Though this global economic recession, especially if it lasts for years instead of months, may change this.

Perhaps in the end all we&#039;ll have left are the Harvards, Yales, Princetons, the 100 or so state-run colleges ( U. of [State] and [State] State U.) and the community colleges in the big cities.

This makes me wonder, though... What&#039;s your degree become worth in the job market if the college you went to one year simply ceases to exist?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy,</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re right; we DO have an oversupply of colleges. Though this global economic recession, especially if it lasts for years instead of months, may change this.</p>
<p>Perhaps in the end all we&#8217;ll have left are the Harvards, Yales, Princetons, the 100 or so state-run colleges ( U. of [State] and [State] State U.) and the community colleges in the big cities.</p>
<p>This makes me wonder, though&#8230; What&#8217;s your degree become worth in the job market if the college you went to one year simply ceases to exist?</p>
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		<title>By: RMR/Dad</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/01/universities-bid-for-students/#comment-43060</link>
		<dc:creator>RMR/Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=7158#comment-43060</guid>
		<description>If the plaintiffs prevail in the case of Martinez v. Regents of the University of California, currently before the California Supreme Court, UC will be required to grant in-state tuition to all out-of-state students. 

The Martinez case challenges the legality of AB 540 (1991), which grants in-state tuition to illegal immigrant students who attended a California high school for three years, graduated here, and signed an affidavit saying they will apply for permanent residency as soon as they are eligible. (For the 2008-09 school year, out-of-state undergraduates pay about $28,600 to attend a UC school, compared with about $8,000 for students who qualify for in-state tuition.) 

Plaintiffs contend that the state law should be invalidated because it violates federal immigration law that prohibits states from providing college benefits to illegal immigrants based on residency unless all U.S. citizens are eligible for the same benefits. If the Supreme Court sides with the plaintiffs, the Legislature will either have to repeal AB 540 or provide in-state tuition for students from other states.

Regarding Brian&#039;s point, I understand the concept of marginal cost and marginal revenue. The in-state tuition charged by UC is less than the marginal cost, however. The difference is made up by state funding, which is provided as a block, not on a per-student basis. (The computation of UC&#039;s marginal cost is exhaustively examined by the California Postsecondary Education Commission, Legislative Analyst, and Department of Finance annually.)

Brian is correct that, if marginal cost were less than marginal revenue, UC could simply hire more professors and admit more students. Unfortunately it&#039;s not -- at least for in-state students. Because of insufficient state funding, UC just reduced the number of freshman applicants it will accept for 2009-10. Thus, a &quot;slot&quot; taken by an out-of-state student is one that isn&#039;t available to an in-state student.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the plaintiffs prevail in the case of Martinez v. Regents of the University of California, currently before the California Supreme Court, UC will be required to grant in-state tuition to all out-of-state students. </p>
<p>The Martinez case challenges the legality of AB 540 (1991), which grants in-state tuition to illegal immigrant students who attended a California high school for three years, graduated here, and signed an affidavit saying they will apply for permanent residency as soon as they are eligible. (For the 2008-09 school year, out-of-state undergraduates pay about $28,600 to attend a UC school, compared with about $8,000 for students who qualify for in-state tuition.) </p>
<p>Plaintiffs contend that the state law should be invalidated because it violates federal immigration law that prohibits states from providing college benefits to illegal immigrants based on residency unless all U.S. citizens are eligible for the same benefits. If the Supreme Court sides with the plaintiffs, the Legislature will either have to repeal AB 540 or provide in-state tuition for students from other states.</p>
<p>Regarding Brian&#8217;s point, I understand the concept of marginal cost and marginal revenue. The in-state tuition charged by UC is less than the marginal cost, however. The difference is made up by state funding, which is provided as a block, not on a per-student basis. (The computation of UC&#8217;s marginal cost is exhaustively examined by the California Postsecondary Education Commission, Legislative Analyst, and Department of Finance annually.)</p>
<p>Brian is correct that, if marginal cost were less than marginal revenue, UC could simply hire more professors and admit more students. Unfortunately it&#8217;s not &#8212; at least for in-state students. Because of insufficient state funding, UC just reduced the number of freshman applicants it will accept for 2009-10. Thus, a &#8220;slot&#8221; taken by an out-of-state student is one that isn&#8217;t available to an in-state student.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Freeman</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/01/universities-bid-for-students/#comment-43059</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=7158#comment-43059</guid>
		<description>&gt; Most colleges need students.

If that&#039;s a chronic problem, we have an oversupply of colleges....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Most colleges need students.</p>
<p>If that&#8217;s a chronic problem, we have an oversupply of colleges&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/01/universities-bid-for-students/#comment-43058</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Assuming Southern Illinois accepts federal money, don&#039;t Missouri and Indiana residents (AND the rest of us) subsidize education for Illinois?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assuming Southern Illinois accepts federal money, don&#8217;t Missouri and Indiana residents (AND the rest of us) subsidize education for Illinois?</p>
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		<title>By: Liam Goldrick</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/01/universities-bid-for-students/#comment-43057</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam Goldrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 04:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Minnesota and Wisconsin have had such a reciprocity agreement for years. See: http://heab.state.wi.us/mnwiapp.html. This phenomenon has little to do with the current economic downturn. The stated purpose is to expand the educational opportunities and choices for students. That said, such a reciprocity agreement is somewhat different from an individual campus changing such a tuition policy unilaterally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Minnesota and Wisconsin have had such a reciprocity agreement for years. See: <a href="http://heab.state.wi.us/mnwiapp.html" rel="nofollow">http://heab.state.wi.us/mnwiapp.html</a>. This phenomenon has little to do with the current economic downturn. The stated purpose is to expand the educational opportunities and choices for students. That said, such a reciprocity agreement is somewhat different from an individual campus changing such a tuition policy unilaterally.</p>
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		<title>By: PeterW</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/01/universities-bid-for-students/#comment-43056</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=7158#comment-43056</guid>
		<description>Brian basically nails it with his post.  Most of the costs of a university are fixed costs that - once a certain number of students enroll - do not change much if additional students enroll.  

A Western Civ class with 15 enrollees costs the same as a Western Civ. class with 20 enrollees - the prof is paid the same, the capital costs of the building are the same, the cost to heat and light the room is unchanged, there are no additional desks to be purchased, etc.  So allowing in a certain number of out-of-state students increases revenues with little increase in cost to the university.  

(There is, of course, some cost in having additional students - they will need to have an advisor, a computer account, etc.  But these expenses are generally small.

This is, essentially, the reason that scholarships don&#039;t cost as much is it seems that they would.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian basically nails it with his post.  Most of the costs of a university are fixed costs that &#8211; once a certain number of students enroll &#8211; do not change much if additional students enroll.  </p>
<p>A Western Civ class with 15 enrollees costs the same as a Western Civ. class with 20 enrollees &#8211; the prof is paid the same, the capital costs of the building are the same, the cost to heat and light the room is unchanged, there are no additional desks to be purchased, etc.  So allowing in a certain number of out-of-state students increases revenues with little increase in cost to the university.  </p>
<p>(There is, of course, some cost in having additional students &#8211; they will need to have an advisor, a computer account, etc.  But these expenses are generally small.</p>
<p>This is, essentially, the reason that scholarships don&#8217;t cost as much is it seems that they would.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Freeman</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/01/universities-bid-for-students/#comment-43055</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=7158#comment-43055</guid>
		<description>&gt;  If you think you will save twenty cents per mile by not driving, you are mistaken. You will only save ten cents per mile. You’ve already paid the purchase price of 200,000 miles, whether you ever use them or not.

So, if I have a choice between driving 200k miles a year or 20k miles a year, I should only consider the marginal cost....  I don&#039;t know about the rest of you, but I think that there&#039;s a huge cost difference between buying a new car every year and buying one every ten years.

At worst, the cost of a car is a sunk cost.  However, if we&#039;re going to keep a car, how long the current one lasts matters.

Fixed costs aren&#039;t actually unchangeable.  They&#039;re merely hard to change in the short term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;  If you think you will save twenty cents per mile by not driving, you are mistaken. You will only save ten cents per mile. You’ve already paid the purchase price of 200,000 miles, whether you ever use them or not.</p>
<p>So, if I have a choice between driving 200k miles a year or 20k miles a year, I should only consider the marginal cost&#8230;.  I don&#8217;t know about the rest of you, but I think that there&#8217;s a huge cost difference between buying a new car every year and buying one every ten years.</p>
<p>At worst, the cost of a car is a sunk cost.  However, if we&#8217;re going to keep a car, how long the current one lasts matters.</p>
<p>Fixed costs aren&#8217;t actually unchangeable.  They&#8217;re merely hard to change in the short term.</p>
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		<title>By: Lightly Seasoned</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/01/universities-bid-for-students/#comment-43054</link>
		<dc:creator>Lightly Seasoned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=7158#comment-43054</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think this is news.  Lots of state schools consider border state students in-state.

Practically speaking, there&#039;s a much denser population on the Missouri side of the river (St. Louis and suburbs) than in southern Illinois, which consists of East St. Louis and a lot of corn grown for ethanol.  SIU has always needed to attract students from across the river.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think this is news.  Lots of state schools consider border state students in-state.</p>
<p>Practically speaking, there&#8217;s a much denser population on the Missouri side of the river (St. Louis and suburbs) than in southern Illinois, which consists of East St. Louis and a lot of corn grown for ethanol.  SIU has always needed to attract students from across the river.</p>
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		<title>By: allen</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/01/universities-bid-for-students/#comment-43053</link>
		<dc:creator>allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=7158#comment-43053</guid>
		<description>The article mentions that in-state tuitions for out-of-state students isn&#039;t a new phenomenon. The author claims it&#039;s an expanding phenomenon due to the economic condition of the nation.

The conclusion I draw from the article is that it&#039;s beginning to look like a buyer&#039;s market in higher education and the suppliers are scrambling to sweeten the deals they&#039;re offering. 

There ought to be a parallel decline in marginal and non-contributing operations at the colleges like the various &quot;studies&quot; departments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article mentions that in-state tuitions for out-of-state students isn&#8217;t a new phenomenon. The author claims it&#8217;s an expanding phenomenon due to the economic condition of the nation.</p>
<p>The conclusion I draw from the article is that it&#8217;s beginning to look like a buyer&#8217;s market in higher education and the suppliers are scrambling to sweeten the deals they&#8217;re offering. </p>
<p>There ought to be a parallel decline in marginal and non-contributing operations at the colleges like the various &#8220;studies&#8221; departments.</p>
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