Comments on: Promoting the unprepared http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/promoting-the-unprepared/ Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:51:22 +0000 hourly 1 By: CJ http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/promoting-the-unprepared/#comment-40239 CJ Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:13:36 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5912#comment-40239 I am a professional engineer. My work is inherently math-intensive. I have come to realize that the single biggest problem in mathematics education is to treat the subject as though it were separate from ordinary language. I am a professional engineer. My work is inherently
math-intensive.

I have come to realize that the single biggest
problem in mathematics education is to treat the
subject as though it were separate from ordinary
language.

]]> By: Required Reading at The Core Knowledge Blog http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/promoting-the-unprepared/#comment-40238 Required Reading at The Core Knowledge Blog Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:06:25 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5912#comment-40238 [...] Promoting the unprepared at Joanne Jacobs Ted Nutting, a calculus teacher in Seattle, blames “reform math” for students’ low achievement. [...] [...] Promoting the unprepared at Joanne Jacobs Ted Nutting, a calculus teacher in Seattle, blames “reform math” for students’ low achievement. [...]

]]> By: Lightly Seasoned http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/promoting-the-unprepared/#comment-40237 Lightly Seasoned Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:42:17 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5912#comment-40237 Ah, math teachers. And why can't they supplement their text books? I've developed all my courses -- from basic remedial to Advanced Placement [TM] from scratch. A few supplements, or swapping chapters, would not seem to be a big deal to me. Ah, math teachers. And why can’t they supplement their text books? I’ve developed all my courses — from basic remedial to Advanced Placement [TM] from scratch. A few supplements, or swapping chapters, would not seem to be a big deal to me.

]]> By: Reality Czech http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/promoting-the-unprepared/#comment-40236 Reality Czech Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:44:36 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5912#comment-40236 <blockquote>At least we have Indian and Chinese immigrants coming in to fill the engineering jobs. Maybe they will demand that their kids learn algebra</blockquote>Too many of the other immigrants won't care

At least we have Indian and Chinese immigrants coming in to fill the engineering jobs. Maybe they will demand that their kids learn algebra

Too many of the other immigrants won’t care

]]> By: Barry Garelick http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/promoting-the-unprepared/#comment-40235 Barry Garelick Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:11:32 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5912#comment-40235 Margo/Mom's comment is well-taken. Teacher knowledge is definitely important. I have seen cases, though, in which teacher's are competent in math, but have to follow the curriculum as dictated by the poor textbook they are forced to use. Teachers can supplement of course, by designing a course on their own, using materials that are borrowed or copied, but it is a tall order. The teacher may still have to follow the order/sequence of the textbook being used--if the sequence of topics doesn't follow good logic, then the supplementation can only go so far. Teachers may be able to explain what's going on, but without the sequential mastery of a well thought out curriculum, they will be hard pressed to do a good job. Even college math professors who teach calculus and who know the topic extremely well, will rely on a textbook in which the sequence and presentation of topics has already been laid out. If forced to supplement a bad textbook this is an additional workload that not everyone can take on. In the elementary grades, it's even more difficult to do so. Margo/Mom’s comment is well-taken. Teacher knowledge is definitely important. I have seen cases, though, in which teacher’s are competent in math, but have to follow the curriculum as dictated by the poor textbook they are forced to use. Teachers can supplement of course, by designing a course on their own, using materials that are borrowed or copied, but it is a tall order. The teacher may still have to follow the order/sequence of the textbook being used–if the sequence of topics doesn’t follow good logic, then the supplementation can only go so far. Teachers may be able to explain what’s going on, but without the sequential mastery of a well thought out curriculum, they will be hard pressed to do a good job.

Even college math professors who teach calculus and who know the topic extremely well, will rely on a textbook in which the sequence and presentation of topics has already been laid out. If forced to supplement a bad textbook this is an additional workload that not everyone can take on. In the elementary grades, it’s even more difficult to do so.

]]> By: Zach http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/promoting-the-unprepared/#comment-40234 Zach Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:50:51 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5912#comment-40234 I am one of "those" math teachers who do not meet "the" guidelines as a real math teacher. I passed Calc III and Therodynamics in college and I meet the "Very Highly Qualified" standard under emergency certification for secondary school math. I fell into math teaching by accident (and love it, even though I teach those considered to be unteachable). My problems are not cirriculum based (though I wish I could get Saxon), my problem is that "Maria" is pregnant, "Katelyn" is under court ordered supervision, and "John" is on narcotics in class. I love the kids, but I have few avenues for discipline and some of them have me as their first adult male role-model (9th grade mostly). I graduated Magna Cum Laude from Arizona State, worked for Microsoft and the AZ Governer's Office as a demographer. I can teach 2 step equations and slope-intercept to the unwillinging. Systems of equations will happen. I hope to teach about markets and monetary systems so they will have a hint of what is going on around them. However; because I lack a Math degree (from MAT or EDU) I find this bias from "real" teachers, both sad and unfortunate. Not all mana or wisdom comes from EDU courses. Very Respectfully, Z. Glazar CVHS I am one of “those” math teachers who do not meet “the” guidelines as a real math teacher. I passed Calc III and Therodynamics in college and I meet the “Very Highly Qualified” standard under emergency certification for secondary school math.

I fell into math teaching by accident (and love it, even though I teach those considered to be unteachable). My problems are not cirriculum based (though I wish I could get Saxon), my problem is that “Maria” is pregnant, “Katelyn” is under court ordered supervision, and “John” is on narcotics in class. I love the kids, but I have few avenues for discipline and some of them have me as their first adult male role-model (9th grade mostly).

I graduated Magna Cum Laude from Arizona State, worked for Microsoft and the AZ Governer’s Office as a demographer. I can teach 2 step equations and slope-intercept to the unwillinging. Systems of equations will happen. I hope to teach about markets and monetary systems so they will have a hint of what is going on around them.

However; because I lack a Math degree (from MAT or EDU) I find this bias from “real” teachers, both sad and unfortunate. Not all mana or wisdom comes from EDU courses.

Very Respectfully,

Z. Glazar
CVHS

]]> By: Margo/Mom http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/promoting-the-unprepared/#comment-40233 Margo/Mom Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:57:25 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5912#comment-40233 One wonders if the educational background of the teachers isn't more important than the whole math vs traditional math issue. We do lag behind other countries in having math teachers who have degrees in math--particularly at the middle school level, where teachers are frequently certified as K-8 generalists. NCLB offered us an opportunity to move away from that by requiring highly qualified status, but most states wimped out at the thought of actually dealing with the problem. So now we have non-degreed (in math) teachers who can say that they are "highly qualified" to teach math based on workshops plus experience. In special education it's even worse, since the special education credential doesn't require a degree in a content area at any grade level. My son has received "instruction" in biology, algebra and geometry from such folks (who are nonetheless very nice people, very caring, very tolerant, wonderful people). He can't pass the tests, but thinking about the quality of teaching is off the table. Of course, we don't let these people teach the "regular" kids. One wonders if the educational background of the teachers isn’t more important than the whole math vs traditional math issue. We do lag behind other countries in having math teachers who have degrees in math–particularly at the middle school level, where teachers are frequently certified as K-8 generalists. NCLB offered us an opportunity to move away from that by requiring highly qualified status, but most states wimped out at the thought of actually dealing with the problem. So now we have non-degreed (in math) teachers who can say that they are “highly qualified” to teach math based on workshops plus experience. In special education it’s even worse, since the special education credential doesn’t require a degree in a content area at any grade level. My son has received “instruction” in biology, algebra and geometry from such folks (who are nonetheless very nice people, very caring, very tolerant, wonderful people). He can’t pass the tests, but thinking about the quality of teaching is off the table. Of course, we don’t let these people teach the “regular” kids.

]]> By: hardlyb http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/promoting-the-unprepared/#comment-40232 hardlyb Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:45:29 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5912#comment-40232 Our experience with math instruction is depressing. Lots of math teachers don't understand the subjects they teach, which may explain their willingness to use this "whole math" nonsense. My kids went to a private school that used a more traditional math curriculum - that was one of the criteria - but even so about half of their teachers did a poor job with math, and in one case, an awful job. At least we have Indian and Chinese immigrants coming in to fill the engineering jobs. Maybe they will demand that their kids learn algebra, and the schools will have to change. Our experience with math instruction is depressing. Lots of math teachers don’t understand the subjects they teach, which may explain their willingness to use this “whole math” nonsense. My kids went to a private school that used a more traditional math curriculum – that was one of the criteria – but even so about half of their teachers did a poor job with math, and in one case, an awful job. At least we have Indian and Chinese immigrants coming in to fill the engineering jobs. Maybe they will demand that their kids learn algebra, and the schools will have to change.

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