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	<title>Comments on: Overseas, private schools boost publics</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/overseas-private-schools-boost-publics/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: Crimson Wife</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/overseas-private-schools-boost-publics/#comment-40302</link>
		<dc:creator>Crimson Wife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5941#comment-40302</guid>
		<description>The way to get around problem #3 is simple- simply limit vouchers to those families with low-to-moderate incomes. And the amount of money my local district spends per-pupil (around $11k) would cover most or all of the tuition at many of the private and parochial schools in the area. Granted there are some schools that charge double that (or more) but they also have the resources to offer generous financial aid to make up the difference for a poor-but-bright student.

As for #6, there seems to be no problem with giving vouchers to college students for use at religious-affiliated schools. A student can even use a Pell Grant to pay for seminary training to become a priest, minister, or rabbi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way to get around problem #3 is simple- simply limit vouchers to those families with low-to-moderate incomes. And the amount of money my local district spends per-pupil (around $11k) would cover most or all of the tuition at many of the private and parochial schools in the area. Granted there are some schools that charge double that (or more) but they also have the resources to offer generous financial aid to make up the difference for a poor-but-bright student.</p>
<p>As for #6, there seems to be no problem with giving vouchers to college students for use at religious-affiliated schools. A student can even use a Pell Grant to pay for seminary training to become a priest, minister, or rabbi.</p>
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		<title>By: superdestroyer</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/overseas-private-schools-boost-publics/#comment-40301</link>
		<dc:creator>superdestroyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5941#comment-40301</guid>
		<description>David,

Talk you for repeating the teachers unions talking points.  Senator obama wants to close down charter schools that fail but leave open non-charter public schools that faile.

How do you explain the difference.  If failure should result in closure, it should happen to all public schools.  At least with charter schools, the parents can pull their children out but with non-charter public schools, the parents are stuck with failure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Talk you for repeating the teachers unions talking points.  Senator obama wants to close down charter schools that fail but leave open non-charter public schools that faile.</p>
<p>How do you explain the difference.  If failure should result in closure, it should happen to all public schools.  At least with charter schools, the parents can pull their children out but with non-charter public schools, the parents are stuck with failure.</p>
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		<title>By: David Cohen</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/overseas-private-schools-boost-publics/#comment-40300</link>
		<dc:creator>David Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 08:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5941#comment-40300</guid>
		<description>Problems with vouchers:

1.  Competition may help, but shifting public money to private schools diminishes the ability of public schools to compete.  Higher end private schools are tapping into resources (foundations, alumni giving) that most public schools can&#039;t match, and those private schools don&#039;t need or deserve public subsidies.

2.  Education funding for public schools shouldn&#039;t be thought of in terms of each individual student&#039;s share of the budget.  (That&#039;s a flaw in spending formulas created by the state, too).  The costs of operating a school or school system do not diminish in fixed proportion to declines in enrollment.  Per-pupil spending calculations are informative for some purposes, but consider: in a school district spending $7500 per student, if a student leaves, where&#039;s the $7500 in savings?  If ten students leave, it probably doesn&#039;t reduce staffing needs at all, but you have to find $75,000 in cuts or savings?  And if 100 students leave a medium to large sized district, you can cut 3-5 teachers and still have a loooong way to go to reach the $750,000 to be cut.  It&#039;s not the student&#039;s money, as an individual, to be withdrawn by the student or family.  It is a portion of our collective public investment in the education of all students.

3.  Vouchers are mainly a benefit to the well-off.  Most voucher amounts provide a nice discount to those already paying for private school, but not enough to get a high-quality alternative for families who can&#039;t afford private school.

4.  Private schools are under no obligation to take students they don&#039;t want.  They can pick the best students, those easiest to educate, leaving public schools with the mandate to educate a needier population (proportionally) and less money with which to do it.

5.  Store-front private schools spring up to take advantage of voucher money, but teacher quality, facilities and materials are often sub-standard, with fewer if any safeguards.  Even if such schools don&#039;t last long, their short existence may have lasting effects for the students who pass through.

6.  Church/state breach - tax dollars to parochial schools.  Legal opinions on this are divided, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Problems with vouchers:</p>
<p>1.  Competition may help, but shifting public money to private schools diminishes the ability of public schools to compete.  Higher end private schools are tapping into resources (foundations, alumni giving) that most public schools can&#8217;t match, and those private schools don&#8217;t need or deserve public subsidies.</p>
<p>2.  Education funding for public schools shouldn&#8217;t be thought of in terms of each individual student&#8217;s share of the budget.  (That&#8217;s a flaw in spending formulas created by the state, too).  The costs of operating a school or school system do not diminish in fixed proportion to declines in enrollment.  Per-pupil spending calculations are informative for some purposes, but consider: in a school district spending $7500 per student, if a student leaves, where&#8217;s the $7500 in savings?  If ten students leave, it probably doesn&#8217;t reduce staffing needs at all, but you have to find $75,000 in cuts or savings?  And if 100 students leave a medium to large sized district, you can cut 3-5 teachers and still have a loooong way to go to reach the $750,000 to be cut.  It&#8217;s not the student&#8217;s money, as an individual, to be withdrawn by the student or family.  It is a portion of our collective public investment in the education of all students.</p>
<p>3.  Vouchers are mainly a benefit to the well-off.  Most voucher amounts provide a nice discount to those already paying for private school, but not enough to get a high-quality alternative for families who can&#8217;t afford private school.</p>
<p>4.  Private schools are under no obligation to take students they don&#8217;t want.  They can pick the best students, those easiest to educate, leaving public schools with the mandate to educate a needier population (proportionally) and less money with which to do it.</p>
<p>5.  Store-front private schools spring up to take advantage of voucher money, but teacher quality, facilities and materials are often sub-standard, with fewer if any safeguards.  Even if such schools don&#8217;t last long, their short existence may have lasting effects for the students who pass through.</p>
<p>6.  Church/state breach &#8211; tax dollars to parochial schools.  Legal opinions on this are divided, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Crimson Wife</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/overseas-private-schools-boost-publics/#comment-40299</link>
		<dc:creator>Crimson Wife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 23:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5941#comment-40299</guid>
		<description>Sen. Obama used to be pro-vouchers until he became the Democratic nominee. I find his flip-flop both disappointing and hypocritical since he himself was educated in private schools AND he sends his own children to one. Sure it&#039;s okay for his own family to flee failing government-run schools but God forbid that other families should have the same option...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sen. Obama used to be pro-vouchers until he became the Democratic nominee. I find his flip-flop both disappointing and hypocritical since he himself was educated in private schools AND he sends his own children to one. Sure it&#8217;s okay for his own family to flee failing government-run schools but God forbid that other families should have the same option&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: MTheads</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/overseas-private-schools-boost-publics/#comment-40298</link>
		<dc:creator>MTheads</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5941#comment-40298</guid>
		<description>Obama&#039;s approach to education is to sound pro-choice, since voters like that, while still catering to the teacher unions and anti-choice democrats.  He is only as educationally &quot;progressive&quot; as the risk of losing support from certain sectors is balanced by his desire to be seen as a reformer.  Hardly an admirable position -- no risk, no innovation, no voter left behind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama&#8217;s approach to education is to sound pro-choice, since voters like that, while still catering to the teacher unions and anti-choice democrats.  He is only as educationally &#8220;progressive&#8221; as the risk of losing support from certain sectors is balanced by his desire to be seen as a reformer.  Hardly an admirable position &#8212; no risk, no innovation, no voter left behind.</p>
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		<title>By: superdestroyer</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/overseas-private-schools-boost-publics/#comment-40297</link>
		<dc:creator>superdestroyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 20:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5941#comment-40297</guid>
		<description>People need to parse what Senator Obama says about competition.  His program is to prove that charters, vouchers, or anything that would harm the teacher unions are failures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People need to parse what Senator Obama says about competition.  His program is to prove that charters, vouchers, or anything that would harm the teacher unions are failures.</p>
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