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	<title>Comments on: &#039;Induction&#039; flops for first-year teachers</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/induction-flops-for-first-year-teachers/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: Downtowner</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/induction-flops-for-first-year-teachers/#comment-40552</link>
		<dc:creator>Downtowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 18:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=6076#comment-40552</guid>
		<description>Teachers, do you have a theory why mentoring and support didn’t make a difference?

The mentoring and support tend to focus on teacher-driven behavior.  In a classroom, reality is give and take not teacher-driven exchange.  Students are not compliant, disruption happens, and the kids have to be convinced to have fun learning.  Just one or two hecklers in a high school class, one or two talkers in middle school, or one or two immature behavior kids in an elementary classroom can effectively destroy the day&#039;s lesson.  You have to learn how to coerce the disruptor into helping you teach, and if that fails you have to learn how to suppress the disruption with the help of peer pressure.  This means understanding child psychology.

Mentoring and support does not deal with the psychology of the kid in the room.  Instead, they focus on maneuvering the thinking and behavior of the teacher, because that is what a district can control relatively cheaply.  It is also what can be measured easily (Did the teacher demonstrate the use of strategy X or not?).  Psychology classes are not required for teachers.  Yet, I believe that over half of the effort in an effective classroom is based on understanding the behavior motives of the kids.

No matter how much mentoring and support a teacher gets, until he or she learns to &quot;read&quot; the kids and to see behavior patterns for what they are, the kids aren&#039;t going to focus on the lesson when it is so much more interesting to &quot;play&quot; the teacher.  I don&#039;t see mentoring and support changing any time soon, when it is so much cheaper to focus on manipulating how the teacher teaches instead of focusing on how to make the students learn even when they do not want to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teachers, do you have a theory why mentoring and support didn’t make a difference?</p>
<p>The mentoring and support tend to focus on teacher-driven behavior.  In a classroom, reality is give and take not teacher-driven exchange.  Students are not compliant, disruption happens, and the kids have to be convinced to have fun learning.  Just one or two hecklers in a high school class, one or two talkers in middle school, or one or two immature behavior kids in an elementary classroom can effectively destroy the day&#8217;s lesson.  You have to learn how to coerce the disruptor into helping you teach, and if that fails you have to learn how to suppress the disruption with the help of peer pressure.  This means understanding child psychology.</p>
<p>Mentoring and support does not deal with the psychology of the kid in the room.  Instead, they focus on maneuvering the thinking and behavior of the teacher, because that is what a district can control relatively cheaply.  It is also what can be measured easily (Did the teacher demonstrate the use of strategy X or not?).  Psychology classes are not required for teachers.  Yet, I believe that over half of the effort in an effective classroom is based on understanding the behavior motives of the kids.</p>
<p>No matter how much mentoring and support a teacher gets, until he or she learns to &#8220;read&#8221; the kids and to see behavior patterns for what they are, the kids aren&#8217;t going to focus on the lesson when it is so much more interesting to &#8220;play&#8221; the teacher.  I don&#8217;t see mentoring and support changing any time soon, when it is so much cheaper to focus on manipulating how the teacher teaches instead of focusing on how to make the students learn even when they do not want to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Ponderosa</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/induction-flops-for-first-year-teachers/#comment-40551</link>
		<dc:creator>Ponderosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 05:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=6076#comment-40551</guid>
		<description>I reckon that the extra red tape associated with mentoring programs (like California&#039;s BTSA) pushes many beginning teachers, already overburdened with work, to the verge of a nervous breakdown.  I think beginning teachers should get full pay for a half-day&#039;s class load, be given a high-quality scripted curriculum to use if they wish, and have mentors watch them teach everyday. Free massages would not be unreasonable either.  I&#039;m serious  --let&#039;s invest in developing a quality teaching force.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I reckon that the extra red tape associated with mentoring programs (like California&#8217;s BTSA) pushes many beginning teachers, already overburdened with work, to the verge of a nervous breakdown.  I think beginning teachers should get full pay for a half-day&#8217;s class load, be given a high-quality scripted curriculum to use if they wish, and have mentors watch them teach everyday. Free massages would not be unreasonable either.  I&#8217;m serious  &#8211;let&#8217;s invest in developing a quality teaching force.</p>
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		<title>By: Liam Goldrick</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/induction-flops-for-first-year-teachers/#comment-40550</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam Goldrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=6076#comment-40550</guid>
		<description>Your headline is way over the top, Joanne. Nothing flopped. This is the first year of a three-year evaluation. There was an absence of statistically significant effects based on a one-year-long induction treatment.

As you know, I work for the New Teacher Center. Even our own analyses don&#039;t suggest nor have we as an organization promised an impact in one year, let alone the first year of implementation of a brand new program in a school or district. It takes at least two years for induction to impact practice and student learning. The benefits are long-term. It&#039;s why we run a two-year induction program. One year doesn&#039;t cut it. It&#039;s important to note that a two-year treatment was added to the Mathematica study after it was underway to take a close look at multi-year induction--and not just a single-year treatment.

Check out today&#039;s Ed Week story for a more balanced take on the Mathematica study: http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2008/10/30/11induction.h28.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your headline is way over the top, Joanne. Nothing flopped. This is the first year of a three-year evaluation. There was an absence of statistically significant effects based on a one-year-long induction treatment.</p>
<p>As you know, I work for the New Teacher Center. Even our own analyses don&#8217;t suggest nor have we as an organization promised an impact in one year, let alone the first year of implementation of a brand new program in a school or district. It takes at least two years for induction to impact practice and student learning. The benefits are long-term. It&#8217;s why we run a two-year induction program. One year doesn&#8217;t cut it. It&#8217;s important to note that a two-year treatment was added to the Mathematica study after it was underway to take a close look at multi-year induction&#8211;and not just a single-year treatment.</p>
<p>Check out today&#8217;s Ed Week story for a more balanced take on the Mathematica study: <a href="http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2008/10/30/11induction.h28.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2008/10/30/11induction.h28.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: BadaBing</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/induction-flops-for-first-year-teachers/#comment-40549</link>
		<dc:creator>BadaBing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=6076#comment-40549</guid>
		<description>Mentorship is overrated and probably totally unhelpful except as a sounding board for frustrations or triumphs. Outside of methodology, one&#039;s unique personality is so overwhelmingly involved in being a teacher that mentors change very little to nothing in your becoming a better teacher. Expect the first year of teaching to be hell. No mentor&#039;s going to make it better. You&#039;re on your own. Having a good sense of humor and the ability to act (James Cagney would have made a great teacher) pay off in spades. If your personality has been endowed with plasticity, and you can change like a chameleon within the school&#039;s prevailing culture, you can be a star. Loving the kids and experiencing joy when you&#039;re with them is a necessity. Everything I mentioned above comes a priori and cannot be taught or imparted by a mentor or any other earthling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mentorship is overrated and probably totally unhelpful except as a sounding board for frustrations or triumphs. Outside of methodology, one&#8217;s unique personality is so overwhelmingly involved in being a teacher that mentors change very little to nothing in your becoming a better teacher. Expect the first year of teaching to be hell. No mentor&#8217;s going to make it better. You&#8217;re on your own. Having a good sense of humor and the ability to act (James Cagney would have made a great teacher) pay off in spades. If your personality has been endowed with plasticity, and you can change like a chameleon within the school&#8217;s prevailing culture, you can be a star. Loving the kids and experiencing joy when you&#8217;re with them is a necessity. Everything I mentioned above comes a priori and cannot be taught or imparted by a mentor or any other earthling.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy in Texas</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/induction-flops-for-first-year-teachers/#comment-40548</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy in Texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 23:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=6076#comment-40548</guid>
		<description>I never saw any new teacher mentoring doing much in my school. Everyone
I was forced to have three mentors my first year: my school, my district and my alt. cert. program. One was, and still is, very helpful but the others were a useless drag on my time.
I had to seek out my own mentors and friends to actually learn how to survive, like with any job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never saw any new teacher mentoring doing much in my school. Everyone<br />
I was forced to have three mentors my first year: my school, my district and my alt. cert. program. One was, and still is, very helpful but the others were a useless drag on my time.<br />
I had to seek out my own mentors and friends to actually learn how to survive, like with any job.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Sweeny</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/induction-flops-for-first-year-teachers/#comment-40547</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Sweeny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=6076#comment-40547</guid>
		<description>Brian Rude,

We may not have a vocabulary but we certainly have jargon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian Rude,</p>
<p>We may not have a vocabulary but we certainly have jargon.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Sweeny</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/induction-flops-for-first-year-teachers/#comment-40546</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Sweeny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=6076#comment-40546</guid>
		<description>McSwain reminded me of something I had blessedly forgotten.  As a first year teacher, the one thing you never have enough of is time.  &quot;New teacher induction&quot; programs take time.  If they don&#039;t provide you with a significant amount of something that you don&#039;t already have, they are WORSE WORSE WORSE!than useless.  (Those capitals were my first year memories flooding back.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McSwain reminded me of something I had blessedly forgotten.  As a first year teacher, the one thing you never have enough of is time.  &#8220;New teacher induction&#8221; programs take time.  If they don&#8217;t provide you with a significant amount of something that you don&#8217;t already have, they are WORSE WORSE WORSE!than useless.  (Those capitals were my first year memories flooding back.)</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Rude</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/induction-flops-for-first-year-teachers/#comment-40545</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Rude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=6076#comment-40545</guid>
		<description>I have a theory, sort of. My theory is that the field of education has not evolved a language, or a vocabulary, of what we do.  I have long felt that there are plenty of good teachers around, but in general good teachers are no good at all at explaining, or even describing, what they do.  A good teacher may know what to do in a given situation, but with a lack of basic language and vocabulary about teaching, can communicate that knowledge only in that given situation.   I have expanded this idea &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brianrude.com/lackdes.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; here. &lt;/a&gt;

     When I started graduate school in math, the graduate assistants who were teaching were required to take a one hour course on the teaching of math.  This course was from the math department, not the education department.  It was an okay course in many ways.  The teacher gave us some practical ideas on testing, and a little bit of practical information on organizing the college algebra course we were teaching.  But what really impressed me was that week after week she would simply cancel the class.  So long as problems did not develop for the graduate assistants, she apparently felt we had nothing to talk about.  Of course I like that priority in one way.  She pretty well left us alone.  She placed no demands  on us, and that was good.  But I also felt it was a tremendous waste of potential.  I could have filled that time with no trouble whatsoever.

     The teacher of this course had managed to get a masters degree in education along with her doctorate in math.  What did she learn in this masters curriculum?  Why didn&#039;t she have anything to impart to us?  She didn&#039;t try to be a mentor to us, and that was good.  But must we conclude that the best we can do for new teachers is just to leave them alone?

     I don&#039;t want to make it a knee jerk habit to blame everything on ed school, but I do feel I am forced again and again to two conclusions.  One, as I mentioned above, is that many good teachers are no good at all in explaining or describing what they do.  That would not be the case if ed school really had substance.  My second conclusion, which does a lot to explain the first conclusion, is that ed school has chosen ideology, not analyses, as it&#039;s foundational basis.  I have expanded this idea &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brianrude.com/indict-ed.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; here. &lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a theory, sort of. My theory is that the field of education has not evolved a language, or a vocabulary, of what we do.  I have long felt that there are plenty of good teachers around, but in general good teachers are no good at all at explaining, or even describing, what they do.  A good teacher may know what to do in a given situation, but with a lack of basic language and vocabulary about teaching, can communicate that knowledge only in that given situation.   I have expanded this idea <a href="http://www.brianrude.com/lackdes.htm" rel="nofollow"> here. </a></p>
<p>     When I started graduate school in math, the graduate assistants who were teaching were required to take a one hour course on the teaching of math.  This course was from the math department, not the education department.  It was an okay course in many ways.  The teacher gave us some practical ideas on testing, and a little bit of practical information on organizing the college algebra course we were teaching.  But what really impressed me was that week after week she would simply cancel the class.  So long as problems did not develop for the graduate assistants, she apparently felt we had nothing to talk about.  Of course I like that priority in one way.  She pretty well left us alone.  She placed no demands  on us, and that was good.  But I also felt it was a tremendous waste of potential.  I could have filled that time with no trouble whatsoever.</p>
<p>     The teacher of this course had managed to get a masters degree in education along with her doctorate in math.  What did she learn in this masters curriculum?  Why didn&#8217;t she have anything to impart to us?  She didn&#8217;t try to be a mentor to us, and that was good.  But must we conclude that the best we can do for new teachers is just to leave them alone?</p>
<p>     I don&#8217;t want to make it a knee jerk habit to blame everything on ed school, but I do feel I am forced again and again to two conclusions.  One, as I mentioned above, is that many good teachers are no good at all in explaining or describing what they do.  That would not be the case if ed school really had substance.  My second conclusion, which does a lot to explain the first conclusion, is that ed school has chosen ideology, not analyses, as it&#8217;s foundational basis.  I have expanded this idea <a href="http://www.brianrude.com/indict-ed.htm" rel="nofollow"> here. </a></p>
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		<title>By: Marco</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/induction-flops-for-first-year-teachers/#comment-40544</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=6076#comment-40544</guid>
		<description>I started my student teaching at one high school, where I had one mediocre master teacher and one very bad one - she refused to meet with me and discuss lesson planning outside of class. The very bad one asserted that I should know everything about lesson planning already since I had completed all my credential classes. She was not only non-supportive, but even hostile when I asked for help. Due to reasons related to paperwork, I left that school. This was a blessing in disguise.


The next semester, I went to another high school. I had one mediocre mentor, and one truly great one. The great one was a wonderful teacher and was very involved in my training. To the degree that I am a good teacher, I owe much of skill to her. I have often wondered how bad a teacher I would now be if I had not been lucky enough to have met her.


Almost all of what I learned in my teaching credential classes was useless or nearly so. My experience with that one great master teacher taught me far more about teaching. The quality of the mentor makes all the difference in the world.

Marco</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I started my student teaching at one high school, where I had one mediocre master teacher and one very bad one &#8211; she refused to meet with me and discuss lesson planning outside of class. The very bad one asserted that I should know everything about lesson planning already since I had completed all my credential classes. She was not only non-supportive, but even hostile when I asked for help. Due to reasons related to paperwork, I left that school. This was a blessing in disguise.</p>
<p>The next semester, I went to another high school. I had one mediocre mentor, and one truly great one. The great one was a wonderful teacher and was very involved in my training. To the degree that I am a good teacher, I owe much of skill to her. I have often wondered how bad a teacher I would now be if I had not been lucky enough to have met her.</p>
<p>Almost all of what I learned in my teaching credential classes was useless or nearly so. My experience with that one great master teacher taught me far more about teaching. The quality of the mentor makes all the difference in the world.</p>
<p>Marco</p>
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		<title>By: Jay P. Greene</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/induction-flops-for-first-year-teachers/#comment-40543</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay P. Greene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=6076#comment-40543</guid>
		<description>I take issue with the claim that this (and other interventions) would work if only we trained people more to implement it well in my post here: http://jaypgreene.com/2008/10/29/the-infinte-regress/ .

I&#039;m not denying that such training is important.  I just think the focus on increasing training neglects problems with incentives and the motivation of educators to learn effective techniques and implement them well.  Lack of information is not the only problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take issue with the claim that this (and other interventions) would work if only we trained people more to implement it well in my post here: <a href="http://jaypgreene.com/2008/10/29/the-infinte-regress/" rel="nofollow">http://jaypgreene.com/2008/10/29/the-infinte-regress/</a> .</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not denying that such training is important.  I just think the focus on increasing training neglects problems with incentives and the motivation of educators to learn effective techniques and implement them well.  Lack of information is not the only problem.</p>
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