Comments on: From bomber to 'school reformer' http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/from-bomber-to-school-reformer/ Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:51:22 +0000 hourly 1 By: Robert Wright http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/from-bomber-to-school-reformer/#comment-40182 Robert Wright Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:52:24 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5906#comment-40182 I don't know if Obama ever palled around with terrorists, but it's an established fact that McCain used to live with Communists. I don’t know if Obama ever palled around with terrorists, but it’s an established fact that McCain used to live with Communists.

]]> By: Margo/Mom http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/from-bomber-to-school-reformer/#comment-40181 Margo/Mom Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:42:55 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5906#comment-40181 Andy: I don't know if there were any math or science community groups available or interested in collaborating with the schools who were involved. The fact that Republicans signed off is an indication that this was probably not--as many have charged--some kind of sleazy Marxist indoctrination program. And yes--the aims are relevant when assessing the results. It is not fruitful to assess the effects on math and science achievement if the aims were to improve the governing ability of the local neighborhoods in response to a legislated decentralization of schools--which was already in place. I understand that FactCheck.org also has pertinent information on William Ayers, his relationship with Barack Obama and other issues. Again, for folks who are actually interested in such things. Andy:

I don’t know if there were any math or science community groups available or interested in collaborating with the schools who were involved. The fact that Republicans signed off is an indication that this was probably not–as many have charged–some kind of sleazy Marxist indoctrination program.

And yes–the aims are relevant when assessing the results. It is not fruitful to assess the effects on math and science achievement if the aims were to improve the governing ability of the local neighborhoods in response to a legislated decentralization of schools–which was already in place.

I understand that FactCheck.org also has pertinent information on William Ayers, his relationship with Barack Obama and other issues. Again, for folks who are actually interested in such things.

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/from-bomber-to-school-reformer/#comment-40180 Andy Freeman Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:19:28 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5906#comment-40180 > including information about aims of the project The aims aren't relevant after it's over, only the results. > including information about aims of the project

The aims aren’t relevant after it’s over, only the results.

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/from-bomber-to-school-reformer/#comment-40179 Andy Freeman Mon, 13 Oct 2008 02:24:38 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5906#comment-40179 > which include arts and music groups, and others beyond ACORN No math or science? > various Republican office-holders So? In any other context, you'd be saying that Repubs are clueless. What makes them reputable this time? Or, are you suggesting that we should believe something because a Repub says it? > which include arts and music groups, and others beyond ACORN

No math or science?

> various Republican office-holders

So? In any other context, you’d be saying that Repubs are clueless. What makes them reputable this time?

Or, are you suggesting that we should believe something because a Repub says it?

]]> By: Margo/Mom http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/from-bomber-to-school-reformer/#comment-40178 Margo/Mom Mon, 13 Oct 2008 01:45:56 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5906#comment-40178 For anyone who is honestly interested in knowing something about the Chicago Annenburg Challenge, as opposed to finding as many ways as possible to connect Barack Obama to words like liberal, radical, Marxist, communist or terrorist, the Annenburg Foundation site has posted a wealth of documents on the Challenge, including information about aims of the project, community groups (which include arts and music groups, and others beyond ACORN), the various people who signed onto the original proposal (which includes various Republican office-holders as well as some of the others already named), and an evaluation of what was learned from the project. For anyone who is honestly interested in knowing something about the Chicago Annenburg Challenge, as opposed to finding as many ways as possible to connect Barack Obama to words like liberal, radical, Marxist, communist or terrorist, the Annenburg Foundation site has posted a wealth of documents on the Challenge, including information about aims of the project, community groups (which include arts and music groups, and others beyond ACORN), the various people who signed onto the original proposal (which includes various Republican office-holders as well as some of the others already named), and an evaluation of what was learned from the project.

]]> By: Robert Wright http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/from-bomber-to-school-reformer/#comment-40177 Robert Wright Mon, 13 Oct 2008 00:50:23 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5906#comment-40177 I finally got around to reading the article by Sol Stern. Journalism it's not. I finally got around to reading the article by Sol Stern.

Journalism it’s not.

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/from-bomber-to-school-reformer/#comment-40176 Andy Freeman Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:45:13 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5906#comment-40176 > Bill Ayers was never actually convicted of the crimes he later admitted–why? Because the court ordered disclosure an any illegal activity (by the government) that was used to infiltrate and track the weathermen. "Never convicted" doesn't mean that he didn't do it. "Never convicted" just means govt can't treat Ayers as guilty. The rest of us can. Why are you so eager to justify, explain away, ignore Ayers' activities? Why don't you think that Ayers should be treated as guilty? Did the govts' foul acts wash Ayers clean? Would you extend the same courtesy to someone on the right? Or, is there something special about Chicago? It is pretty much accepted that one of Ayers fellow Chicagoans, Al Capone, was a murdering thug, but he was never convicted of murder. Would you argue that he wasn't guilty of murder? > Bill Ayers was never actually convicted of the crimes he later admitted–why? Because the court ordered disclosure an any illegal activity (by the government) that was used to infiltrate and track the weathermen.

“Never convicted” doesn’t mean that he didn’t do it. “Never convicted” just means govt can’t treat Ayers as guilty. The rest of us can.

Why are you so eager to justify, explain away, ignore Ayers’ activities? Why don’t you think that Ayers should be treated as guilty? Did the govts’ foul acts wash Ayers clean?

Would you extend the same courtesy to someone on the right?

Or, is there something special about Chicago? It is pretty much accepted that one of Ayers fellow Chicagoans, Al Capone, was a murdering thug, but he was never convicted of murder. Would you argue that he wasn’t guilty of murder?

]]> By: Rex http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/from-bomber-to-school-reformer/#comment-40175 Rex Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:35:58 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5906#comment-40175 Actually, progressives are further left than liberals. Living not too far from Ithaca, New York, I have become well aware of the progression of liberal thought. (Ithaca=10.2 square miles surrounded by reality.) Can you imagine a majority of Ithacans not voting for Hillary for senator because she was in favor of the Iraq war? Of course, there were people in Ithaca protesting the Iraq war in the 1990's. But they say they have a lot of diversity there in Ithaca, all the way from the Greens on the far left to the Democrats on the far right. Actually, progressives are further left than liberals.

Living not too far from Ithaca, New York, I have become well aware of the progression of liberal thought. (Ithaca=10.2 square miles surrounded by reality.)

Can you imagine a majority of Ithacans not voting for Hillary for senator because she was in favor of the Iraq war? Of course, there were people in Ithaca protesting the Iraq war in the 1990′s.

But they say they have a lot of diversity there in Ithaca, all the way from the Greens on the far left to the Democrats on the far right.

]]> By: allen http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/from-bomber-to-school-reformer/#comment-40174 allen Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:44:01 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5906#comment-40174 <i>Why is it that some of the worst knaves and scalawags I’ve known are big on “social justice”?</i> Because, along with being more then a bit alarming, "liquidating the capitalist exploiters of the working class" is so twentieth century. Along with being your moral superior, lefties are also intellectual titans, one and all, and breath-takingly cutting-edge. That's why they're all "progressives" now "liberal" having come to be associated with a uniform record of failure, waste and incompetence. If you're unwilling to change the scam you've got to change the name and hope no one notices the similarity. Why is it that some of the worst knaves and scalawags I’ve known are big on “social justice”?

Because, along with being more then a bit alarming, “liquidating the capitalist exploiters of the working class” is so twentieth century. Along with being your moral superior, lefties are also intellectual titans, one and all, and breath-takingly cutting-edge.

That’s why they’re all “progressives” now “liberal” having come to be associated with a uniform record of failure, waste and incompetence. If you’re unwilling to change the scam you’ve got to change the name and hope no one notices the similarity.

]]> By: Sunny http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/10/from-bomber-to-school-reformer/#comment-40173 Sunny Sun, 12 Oct 2008 10:32:02 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5906#comment-40173 What I find “radical” about the social justice teaching espoused by Ayers and his ilk is that they think teaching disadvantaged kids to rail against the man will do more to help them rise above their poverty than teaching these kids useful knowledge, like multiplication tables for example. After Ayers secured the CAC funds, its support of social justice programs in Chicago schools doomed it to be the failure it was. Obama’s actions, including his role in heading the CAC and his association with Rev. Wright, tell me more about his educational views than any campaign rhetoric can. What I find “radical” about the social justice teaching espoused by Ayers and his ilk is that they think teaching disadvantaged kids to rail against the man will do more to help them rise above their poverty than teaching these kids useful knowledge, like multiplication tables for example. After Ayers secured the CAC funds, its support of social justice programs in Chicago schools doomed it to be the failure it was.

Obama’s actions, including his role in heading the CAC and his association with Rev. Wright, tell me more about his educational views than any campaign rhetoric can.

]]>