Comments on: Medals for all (or none) http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/medals-for-all-or-none/ Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:51:22 +0000 hourly 1 By: BadaBing http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/medals-for-all-or-none/#comment-39756 BadaBing Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:20:26 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5852#comment-39756 Soccer is a 3rd-rate sport that seems to mirror the chaos of disorderly societies. Isn't the object not to win but to run around in a large grassy field trying to kick a ball out of bounds? I guess I had it wrong, but I've never been able to stay awake long enough to see what happens after the running and kicking begins. Soccer is a 3rd-rate sport that seems to mirror the chaos of disorderly societies. Isn’t the object not to win but to run around in a large grassy field trying to kick a ball out of bounds? I guess I had it wrong, but I’ve never been able to stay awake long enough to see what happens after the running and kicking begins.

]]> By: Bart http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/medals-for-all-or-none/#comment-39755 Bart Mon, 22 Sep 2008 03:32:54 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5852#comment-39755 <i>Gridiron football</i> sounds reasonable enough, alongside <i>association football</i> (soccer) and <i>rugby football</i>, and other variations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football Gridiron football sounds reasonable enough, alongside association football (soccer) and rugby football, and other variations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football

]]> By: André Kenji http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/medals-for-all-or-none/#comment-39754 André Kenji Sun, 21 Sep 2008 23:47:32 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5852#comment-39754 "American “football” is a latecomer, and therefore should be called something else - perhaps “Commercialball”?" In Brazil we call it "American Football". “American “football” is a latecomer, and therefore should be called something else – perhaps “Commercialball”?”

In Brazil we call it “American Football”.

]]> By: momof4 http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/medals-for-all-or-none/#comment-39753 momof4 Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:13:02 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5852#comment-39753 For those unaware of the way soccer works in rest of the world, the best of the 13-14 year olds are drafted by professional clubs (like Arsenal and Manchester United in England, Ajax in the Netherlands etc). The clubs not only provide soccer training, but also regular schooling. For the kids with that kind of talent and dedication, access to playing with and against the best really matters. Without a multi-level system from early years (and I'm not including preschool), the chance to develop high-level skills by age 13 or so is unlikely. In this country, look at the Bollitieri (?sp) Tennis Academy, which does the same thing. Of course, nowdays most of those kids (like Maria Sharapova) aren't Americans - I've read comments from those coaches that American kids aren't willing to work that hard because it would interfere with their social lives, but that's another issue. For those unaware of the way soccer works in rest of the world, the best of the 13-14 year olds are drafted by professional clubs (like Arsenal and Manchester United in England, Ajax in the Netherlands etc). The clubs not only provide soccer training, but also regular schooling. For the kids with that kind of talent and dedication, access to playing with and against the best really matters. Without a multi-level system from early years (and I’m not including preschool), the chance to develop high-level skills by age 13 or so is unlikely.

In this country, look at the Bollitieri (?sp) Tennis Academy, which does the same thing. Of course, nowdays most of those kids (like Maria Sharapova) aren’t Americans – I’ve read comments from those coaches that American kids aren’t willing to work that hard because it would interfere with their social lives, but that’s another issue.

]]> By: Ragnarok http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/medals-for-all-or-none/#comment-39752 Ragnarok Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:42:00 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5852#comment-39752 <i>"...British youth soccer (known as “football”)"</i> American "football" is a latecomer, and therefore should be called something else - perhaps "Commercialball"? <i>"...those who send letters from big companies, full of spelling and grammattical errors."</i> Yea, even in these hallowed pages thou canst find passionate progressive letters from master teachers, replete with murdered idioms and butchered spelling. 'Tis unseemly to be concerned about such - after all, if the students cannot read, why this kerfuffle about spelling and grammar? They met Wren & Martin in a dark alley, and W&M did not emerge from it. “…British youth soccer (known as “football”)”

American “football” is a latecomer, and therefore should be called something else – perhaps “Commercialball”?

“…those who send letters from big companies, full of spelling and grammattical errors.”

Yea, even in these hallowed pages thou canst find passionate progressive letters from master teachers, replete with murdered idioms and butchered spelling. ‘Tis unseemly to be concerned about such – after all, if the students cannot read, why this kerfuffle about spelling and grammar?

They met Wren & Martin in a dark alley, and W&M did not emerge from it.

]]> By: momof4 http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/medals-for-all-or-none/#comment-39751 momof4 Sun, 21 Sep 2008 20:27:37 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5852#comment-39751 How do you square the "full competition at 11 and above" philosophy with the fact that some kids (all 4 of mine) were in high school at 13? Had they not had years of elite sport experience, none of my team-sport players would have had much chance of making their JV team, let alone playing, let alone eventually playing varsity. The gap between elite players and others encompasses not only skills and tactics, but overall fitness. There simply is not enough time in a school-season framework to acquire these things. All a school coach can do is promote teamwork and the good/honest ones will admit it. The success of the team is heavily correlated with the number of experienced elite players on it. In individual sports, it is also common for competition to be such that non-elite players don't make the team, let alone regional playoffs and the state tournament. Should the kids who are eager to become seriously involved in sports be denied the opportunity, just because all are not that interested? People don't seem to have a problem with the high school music director expecting those kids wanting to be part of the marching band (or jazz band, orchestra etc) to be able to play an instrument well. Why should sports be any different? How do you square the “full competition at 11 and above” philosophy with the fact that some kids (all 4 of mine) were in high school at 13? Had they not had years of elite sport experience, none of my team-sport players would have had much chance of making their JV team, let alone playing, let alone eventually playing varsity.

The gap between elite players and others encompasses not only skills and tactics, but overall fitness. There simply is not enough time in a school-season framework to acquire these things. All a school coach can do is promote teamwork and the good/honest ones will admit it. The success of the team is heavily correlated with the number of experienced elite players on it. In individual sports, it is also common for competition to be such that non-elite players don’t make the team, let alone regional playoffs and the state tournament.

Should the kids who are eager to become seriously involved in sports be denied the opportunity, just because all are not that interested?
People don’t seem to have a problem with the high school music director expecting those kids wanting to be part of the marching band (or jazz band, orchestra etc) to be able to play an instrument well. Why should sports be any different?

]]> By: Annoying Old Guy http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/medals-for-all-or-none/#comment-39750 Annoying Old Guy Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:21:45 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5852#comment-39750 I think there's some confusion here. The cited article wasn't about keeping score in a game, but about keeping track of a season and publicizing the results. Honestly, I agree with the league and think it's fine to introduce competition gradually. E.g., don't score games at 6 and under. Score games but not seasons at under 11. Full competition at 11 and above. I think it's quite possible to see something as a good thing yet not appropriate for all ages, or appropriate in different amounts. I think there’s some confusion here. The cited article wasn’t about keeping score in a game, but about keeping track of a season and publicizing the results. Honestly, I agree with the league and think it’s fine to introduce competition gradually. E.g., don’t score games at 6 and under. Score games but not seasons at under 11. Full competition at 11 and above. I think it’s quite possible to see something as a good thing yet not appropriate for all ages, or appropriate in different amounts.

]]> By: allen http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/medals-for-all-or-none/#comment-39749 allen Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:20:06 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5852#comment-39749 The wonderful irony of this debatelet is that while us hairless apes quite naturally order ourselves hierarchically we now have a rationale that allows a person to put themselves high up on the hierarchy by pretending that they're above such base considerations as trying to climb the hierarchy. The wonderful irony of this debatelet is that while us hairless apes quite naturally order ourselves hierarchically we now have a rationale that allows a person to put themselves high up on the hierarchy by pretending that they’re above such base considerations as trying to climb the hierarchy.

]]> By: McSwain http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/medals-for-all-or-none/#comment-39748 McSwain Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:58:57 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5852#comment-39748 We play games to see who WINS. Kids will practice skills because they want to win, not just because. Perhaps rather than taking away the possibility of winning and losing, we should be teaching our kids to have healthy attitudes toward competition, how to gracefully win, and how to gracefully lose. Because take it from this elementary school teacher, our children are sadly lacking in good sportsmanship, not just in athletics, but in life, these days. They think they should be rewarded all the time, whether they've earned it or not. And seriously, does life work that way? We play games to see who WINS. Kids will practice skills because they want to win, not just because.

Perhaps rather than taking away the possibility of winning and losing, we should be teaching our kids to have healthy attitudes toward competition, how to gracefully win, and how to gracefully lose. Because take it from this elementary school teacher, our children are sadly lacking in good sportsmanship, not just in athletics, but in life, these days. They think they should be rewarded all the time, whether they’ve earned it or not. And seriously, does life work that way?

]]> By: pm http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/medals-for-all-or-none/#comment-39747 pm Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:51:15 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5852#comment-39747 Learning to persevere in the face of criticism is more important than winning at a youth sports event. That's a real life emotional skill. A trophy is just a piece of junk that takes up room in your house. Plus if you start thinking of yourself as a "winner", you may be afraid to push yourself to the next level because you're more afraid of failure. So who is the real winner? If you believe Carol Dweck's book, it's the people with the growth mindset. Results are a natural part of life, lets just get on with it. Learning to persevere in the face of criticism is more important than winning at a youth sports event. That’s a real life emotional skill. A trophy is just a piece of junk that takes up room in your house. Plus if you start thinking of yourself as a “winner”, you may be afraid to push yourself to the next level because you’re more afraid of failure. So who is the real winner? If you believe Carol Dweck’s book, it’s the people with the growth mindset. Results are a natural part of life, lets just get on with it.

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