Comments on: Dems split with teachers' unions on pay http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/dems-split-with-teachers-unions-on-pay/ Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:52:13 +0000 hourly 1 By: Andy Freeman http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/dems-split-with-teachers-unions-on-pay/#comment-39328 Andy Freeman Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:08:40 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5808#comment-39328 > How do advocates of merit pay propose to compensate Art or Shop teachers? Is there a standardized test of Sculpture or Auto Mechanics? I won't comment on art, but auto mechanics is regularly tested in the real world. In fact, testability is pretty much universal among fields concerned with manipulating matter and/or energy. I do find it interesting that a testing opponent would think that auto mechanics is untestable. As far as art goes, if you can't tell us which is better, there's no reason for us to pay more for better.... > How do advocates of merit pay propose to compensate Art or Shop teachers? Is there a standardized test of Sculpture or Auto Mechanics?

I won’t comment on art, but auto mechanics is regularly tested in the real world.

In fact, testability is pretty much universal among fields concerned with manipulating matter and/or energy.

I do find it interesting that a testing opponent would think that auto mechanics is untestable.

As far as art goes, if you can’t tell us which is better, there’s no reason for us to pay more for better….

]]> By: Malcolm Kirkpatrick http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/dems-split-with-teachers-unions-on-pay/#comment-39327 Malcolm Kirkpatrick Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:59:52 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5808#comment-39327 How do advocates of merit pay propose to compensate Art or Shop teachers? Is there a standardized test of Sculpture or Auto Mechanics? Or do advocates of merit pay suggest that this be reserved for Math and English? Just try get union support for that! I see English classes under such a system preparing students with analogy and synonym/antonym drills. Merit pay will not work in the current State-monopoly school system. Like any other internal accountability system, insiders will have a strong incentive to distort the mechanism so that everyone wins, so everyone gets prizes. Economists call the phenomenon "regulatory capture". The only merit pay system that will work to the advantage of students, real classroom teachers, and taxpayers is a (voucher-subsidized) competitive market in education services. How do advocates of merit pay propose to compensate Art or Shop teachers? Is there a standardized test of Sculpture or Auto Mechanics? Or do advocates of merit pay suggest that this be reserved for Math and English? Just try get union support for that! I see English classes under such a system preparing students with analogy and synonym/antonym drills.

Merit pay will not work in the current State-monopoly school system. Like any other internal accountability system, insiders will have a strong incentive to distort the mechanism so that everyone wins, so everyone gets prizes. Economists call the phenomenon “regulatory capture”. The only merit pay system that will work to the advantage of students, real classroom teachers, and taxpayers is a (voucher-subsidized) competitive market in education services.

]]> By: EdWonk http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/dems-split-with-teachers-unions-on-pay/#comment-39326 EdWonk Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:03:32 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5808#comment-39326 How about a little accountability for the parents and students AS WELL as the teachers? But then if that happened, when the kids don't attend school or even attempt to do their school work, that would make the parents (or should I say voters) partly responsible, wouldn't it? How about a little accountability for the parents and students AS WELL as the teachers?

But then if that happened, when the kids don’t attend school or even attempt to do their school work, that would make the parents (or should I say voters) partly responsible, wouldn’t it?

]]> By: allen http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/dems-split-with-teachers-unions-on-pay/#comment-39325 allen Thu, 04 Sep 2008 14:19:57 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5808#comment-39325 "We must ensure that every student has a high-quality teacher and an effective principal. That starts with recruiting a new generation of teachers and principals by making this pledge–if you commit your life to teaching, America will commit to paying for your college education. We'll provide better preparation, mentoring and career ladders. Where there are teachers who are still struggling and underperforming we should provide them with individual help and support. And if they're still underperforming after that, we should find a quick and fair way—consistent with due process—to put another teacher in that classroom." I suppose for the Democratic Party the admission that there's such a creature as an "underperforming" teacher is revolutionary but outside the NEA hothouse that's hardly the uncompromising pursuit of the best education for every child. And just to take the sting out admission that every teacher *isn't* the embodiment of compassion and professionalism, this next paragraph: "To reward our teachers, we will follow the lead of school districts and educators that have pioneered innovative ways to increase teacher pay that are developed with teachers, not imposed on them. We will make an unprecedented national investment to provid e teachers with better pay and better support to improve their skills, and their students' learning. We’ll reward effective teachers who teach in underserved areas, take on added responsibilities like mentoring new teachers, or consistently excel in the classroom." i.e. more bucks! Of course there's some lip service paid to doing more for those additional bucks but I'm sure no one takes that very seriously. “We must ensure that every student has a high-quality teacher and an effective principal. That starts with recruiting a new generation of teachers and principals by making this pledge–if you commit your life to teaching, America will commit to paying for your college education. We’ll provide better preparation, mentoring and career ladders. Where there are teachers who are still struggling and underperforming we should provide them with individual help and support. And if they’re still underperforming after that, we should find a quick and fair way—consistent with due process—to put another teacher in
that classroom.”

I suppose for the Democratic Party the admission that there’s such a creature as an “underperforming” teacher is revolutionary but outside the NEA hothouse that’s hardly the uncompromising pursuit of the best education for every child.

And just to take the sting out admission that every teacher *isn’t* the embodiment of compassion and professionalism, this next paragraph:

“To reward our teachers, we will follow the lead of school districts and educators that have pioneered innovative ways to increase teacher pay that are developed with teachers, not imposed on them. We will make an unprecedented national investment to provid e teachers with better pay and better support to improve their skills, and their students’ learning. We’ll reward effective teachers who teach in underserved areas, take on added responsibilities like mentoring new teachers, or consistently excel in the classroom.”

i.e. more bucks!

Of course there’s some lip service paid to doing more for those additional bucks but I’m sure no one takes that very seriously.

]]> By: elizabeth http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/dems-split-with-teachers-unions-on-pay/#comment-39324 elizabeth Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:56:19 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5808#comment-39324 If I were more computer literate I could figure out how to cut an paste the education part of the platform in here -- but I cannot so here is the link -- http://www.workinglife.org/storage/users/4/4/images/111/2008%20democratic%20platform%20080808.pdf The education part starts on page 13 or 14 Enjoy -- some interesting stuff -- such as figuring out a way to get ineffective teachers out of the classroom -- finally!!! If I were more computer literate I could figure out how to cut an paste the education part of the platform in here — but I cannot so here is the link –

http://www.workinglife.org/storage/users/4/4/images/111/2008%20democratic%20platform%20080808.pdf

The education part starts on page 13 or 14

Enjoy — some interesting stuff — such as figuring out a way to get ineffective teachers out of the classroom — finally!!!

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