<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Censoring T-shirts</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/censoring-t-shirts/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/censoring-t-shirts/</link>
	<description>Free-linking and thinking on education by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:28:11 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: BadaBing</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/censoring-t-shirts/comment-page-1/#comment-83554</link>
		<dc:creator>BadaBing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 18:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5858#comment-83554</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think that throwing rocks through the windows of the first black family to move into a white neighborhood qualifies as a social more, but I could be wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that throwing rocks through the windows of the first black family to move into a white neighborhood qualifies as a social more, but I could be wrong.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Walter_E_Wallis</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/censoring-t-shirts/comment-page-1/#comment-83549</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter_E_Wallis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 13:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5858#comment-83549</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s see if I got this right. Kid wears &quot;provocative&quot; t-shirt. Someone objects and hits him, kid with shirt is punished, kid who hit is not? Someone needs to poke that principal in the nose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s see if I got this right. Kid wears &#8220;provocative&#8221; t-shirt. Someone objects and hits him, kid with shirt is punished, kid who hit is not? Someone needs to poke that principal in the nose.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: atlas</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/censoring-t-shirts/comment-page-1/#comment-83525</link>
		<dc:creator>atlas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5858#comment-83525</guid>
		<description>Bellringer, you make good points of course.  There will always be a balancing act between free expression and reasonable order.  But that&#039;s why they pay us the big bucks, to make those calls.

These are ten and eleven year olds in the fifth grade. You must have some rules or you will have chaos.  In my class you aren&#039;t allowed to say hateful things about someone.  That would include saying that someone is a terrorists best friend.  Much as I enjoy these kids, I realize that they are only partially domesticated at this age. That must be taken into account.   

By the way, I think the whole red, white and blue day was a bad idea.  I&#039;m just surprised that the over the top reaction came from the far right rather than the far left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bellringer, you make good points of course.  There will always be a balancing act between free expression and reasonable order.  But that&#8217;s why they pay us the big bucks, to make those calls.</p>
<p>These are ten and eleven year olds in the fifth grade. You must have some rules or you will have chaos.  In my class you aren&#8217;t allowed to say hateful things about someone.  That would include saying that someone is a terrorists best friend.  Much as I enjoy these kids, I realize that they are only partially domesticated at this age. That must be taken into account.   </p>
<p>By the way, I think the whole red, white and blue day was a bad idea.  I&#8217;m just surprised that the over the top reaction came from the far right rather than the far left.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bellringers</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/censoring-t-shirts/comment-page-1/#comment-83503</link>
		<dc:creator>Bellringers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5858#comment-83503</guid>
		<description>Our democracy cannot survive if we do not allow for a free market of ideas. You cannot have a free market of ideas without the First Amendment. And, of course, you cannot have the First Amendment without allowing freedom of expression, but here&#039;s the catchâ€“â€“you have to allow freedom of expression even if you disagree with the content.That&#039;s the only way to have that free market of ideas so essential to a democracy. If you don&#039;t permit that and only allow one opinion, one expression, one viewpoint, why I think then we would be living in some place likeâ€¦ oh, I don&#039;t knowâ€¦Â try China.

As educators, I believe it is imperative that we teach our children how to be good citizens and that includes exercising their First Amendment rights as well as recognizing the awesome responsibility that carries with it.

And yes, I know that under Hazelwood schools have broader powers to censor school sponsored speech. And yes, I know the courts have given broad latitude in allowing schools to censor things that can cause a &quot;substantial disruption&quot; of the school day--things like a confederate flag for instance.

I just fear that the more we try to stem the flow of ideas, the less chance we have of teaching our students how important freedom of expression is to the survival of our democracy. We have to be able to exchange ideas, discuss them, compromise when necessary, and then let the majority rule.

If you feel as passionately as I do about the First Amendment and need more info on court cases etc. you should check out the Student Press Law Center&#039;s website at www.splc.org. There&#039;s a lot of good info there and many resources for teachers.

I hope I didn&#039;t ramble too much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our democracy cannot survive if we do not allow for a free market of ideas. You cannot have a free market of ideas without the First Amendment. And, of course, you cannot have the First Amendment without allowing freedom of expression, but here&#8217;s the catchâ€“â€“you have to allow freedom of expression even if you disagree with the content.That&#8217;s the only way to have that free market of ideas so essential to a democracy. If you don&#8217;t permit that and only allow one opinion, one expression, one viewpoint, why I think then we would be living in some place likeâ€¦ oh, I don&#8217;t knowâ€¦Â try China.</p>
<p>As educators, I believe it is imperative that we teach our children how to be good citizens and that includes exercising their First Amendment rights as well as recognizing the awesome responsibility that carries with it.</p>
<p>And yes, I know that under Hazelwood schools have broader powers to censor school sponsored speech. And yes, I know the courts have given broad latitude in allowing schools to censor things that can cause a &#8220;substantial disruption&#8221; of the school day&#8211;things like a confederate flag for instance.</p>
<p>I just fear that the more we try to stem the flow of ideas, the less chance we have of teaching our students how important freedom of expression is to the survival of our democracy. We have to be able to exchange ideas, discuss them, compromise when necessary, and then let the majority rule.</p>
<p>If you feel as passionately as I do about the First Amendment and need more info on court cases etc. you should check out the Student Press Law Center&#8217;s website at <a href="http://www.splc.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.splc.org</a>. There&#8217;s a lot of good info there and many resources for teachers.</p>
<p>I hope I didn&#8217;t ramble too much.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Charles R. Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/censoring-t-shirts/comment-page-1/#comment-83502</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles R. Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5858#comment-83502</guid>
		<description>Many of these problems go away if there is a strict dress code or uniforms. Many of these problems go away if there is genuine school choice since the parents unhappy with arbitrary decisions of school administrators have genuine alternatives.

The boy is guilty of insubordination and was rightly suspended. The school was right to tell him to turn the shirt inside out. As far as the T shirt is concerned it is factual. Some facts upset people. You cannot operate a school when the students are agitated over political disputes.

What this incident illustrates is that the concept of freedom of speech is unworkable in a school setting. The only sensible way to protect the rights of students in these matters is to break the state monopoly on publicly funded schooling and tell unhappy students to go somewhere else that will take them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of these problems go away if there is a strict dress code or uniforms. Many of these problems go away if there is genuine school choice since the parents unhappy with arbitrary decisions of school administrators have genuine alternatives.</p>
<p>The boy is guilty of insubordination and was rightly suspended. The school was right to tell him to turn the shirt inside out. As far as the T shirt is concerned it is factual. Some facts upset people. You cannot operate a school when the students are agitated over political disputes.</p>
<p>What this incident illustrates is that the concept of freedom of speech is unworkable in a school setting. The only sensible way to protect the rights of students in these matters is to break the state monopoly on publicly funded schooling and tell unhappy students to go somewhere else that will take them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Wright</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/censoring-t-shirts/comment-page-1/#comment-83496</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5858#comment-83496</guid>
		<description>I never thought of masturbation as an act of expression.

If everything is expression, then nothing is. That&#039;s the nature of definition.

Obi, we&#039;re talking about children, not &quot;people.&quot;

Should children have the same rights as adults? Some people think so. I used to think so. But not anymore. We have to treat children like children. If we don&#039;t, we&#039;re guilty of parental neglect.

Before my school adopted a uniform policy, boys would come to school with T-shirts promoting certain strip clubs.

These boys needed to be told that that was inappropriate. By telling them nothing, it gave them tacit approval which was giving them the wrong message.

I&#039;m a great believer in freedom of speech. But I also believe it&#039;s a crime of neglect to treat children as if they were adults.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never thought of masturbation as an act of expression.</p>
<p>If everything is expression, then nothing is. That&#8217;s the nature of definition.</p>
<p>Obi, we&#8217;re talking about children, not &#8220;people.&#8221;</p>
<p>Should children have the same rights as adults? Some people think so. I used to think so. But not anymore. We have to treat children like children. If we don&#8217;t, we&#8217;re guilty of parental neglect.</p>
<p>Before my school adopted a uniform policy, boys would come to school with T-shirts promoting certain strip clubs.</p>
<p>These boys needed to be told that that was inappropriate. By telling them nothing, it gave them tacit approval which was giving them the wrong message.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a great believer in freedom of speech. But I also believe it&#8217;s a crime of neglect to treat children as if they were adults.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Miller T. Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/censoring-t-shirts/comment-page-1/#comment-83495</link>
		<dc:creator>Miller T. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5858#comment-83495</guid>
		<description>No one is advocating &quot;absolute&quot; freedom of expression in the public schools.  The key point is that the Tinker Decision be followed and understood.  Not even a good strawman.

The key to this is the word &quot;public.&quot;  Except for a very narrow band of expression, all expression is allowed.  Some schools are requiring uniforms thinking that it will limit expression.  It will not.  There has already been a case to prove that point.

A young boy was very upset at the actions of his principal and taped a message to the back of his uniform shirt saying, &quot;Principal X violated my friend&#039;s rights.&quot;  He was suspended for being &quot;out of uniform.&quot;  He sued and won.

The court made the decision with directions to the principal along these lines:  You are an agent of the government.  The students are citizens with all the rights of any other citizen with but a few exceptions.  You must respect those rights or find a job that better suits you.

As to the point that boy&#039;s red, white and blue shirt made, one has to wonder why that bothered anyone at all.  As the news has been coming out just today, a very good case can be made that such sentiments about Obama is very very true.

Most of the supression of speach by government officials is that which they don&#039;t want to be spread for personal reasons.  The truth (maybe-maybe not) hurts and sometimes offends.  You do not have a right to not be offended.

See more about this very issue at the F.I.R.E. website to get a full read of the law.  http://www.thefire.org/pdfs/free-speech.pdf is the place to start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one is advocating &#8220;absolute&#8221; freedom of expression in the public schools.  The key point is that the Tinker Decision be followed and understood.  Not even a good strawman.</p>
<p>The key to this is the word &#8220;public.&#8221;  Except for a very narrow band of expression, all expression is allowed.  Some schools are requiring uniforms thinking that it will limit expression.  It will not.  There has already been a case to prove that point.</p>
<p>A young boy was very upset at the actions of his principal and taped a message to the back of his uniform shirt saying, &#8220;Principal X violated my friend&#8217;s rights.&#8221;  He was suspended for being &#8220;out of uniform.&#8221;  He sued and won.</p>
<p>The court made the decision with directions to the principal along these lines:  You are an agent of the government.  The students are citizens with all the rights of any other citizen with but a few exceptions.  You must respect those rights or find a job that better suits you.</p>
<p>As to the point that boy&#8217;s red, white and blue shirt made, one has to wonder why that bothered anyone at all.  As the news has been coming out just today, a very good case can be made that such sentiments about Obama is very very true.</p>
<p>Most of the supression of speach by government officials is that which they don&#8217;t want to be spread for personal reasons.  The truth (maybe-maybe not) hurts and sometimes offends.  You do not have a right to not be offended.</p>
<p>See more about this very issue at the F.I.R.E. website to get a full read of the law.  <a href="http://www.thefire.org/pdfs/free-speech.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefire.org/pdfs/free-speech.pdf</a> is the place to start.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rightwingprof</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/censoring-t-shirts/comment-page-1/#comment-83492</link>
		<dc:creator>rightwingprof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5858#comment-83492</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think an enlightened school would allow and encourage individual expression of all kinds and at the same time teach tolerance and respect for different opinions.&quot;

Well, you can&#039;t have both, because they contradict each other. &quot;Tolerance&quot; silences. That&#039;s its purpose. And individual expression of all kinds? Really? So if a kid stood up in class and decided to express himself by masturbating, that would be encouraged in an enlightened school?

One of the many benefits of a Catholic school is uniforms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think an enlightened school would allow and encourage individual expression of all kinds and at the same time teach tolerance and respect for different opinions.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, you can&#8217;t have both, because they contradict each other. &#8220;Tolerance&#8221; silences. That&#8217;s its purpose. And individual expression of all kinds? Really? So if a kid stood up in class and decided to express himself by masturbating, that would be encouraged in an enlightened school?</p>
<p>One of the many benefits of a Catholic school is uniforms.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MTheads</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/censoring-t-shirts/comment-page-1/#comment-83488</link>
		<dc:creator>MTheads</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5858#comment-83488</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a shirt designed to be provocative.  And I think some people here are pulling our legs and can&#039;t possibly believe public schools should be some kind of absolute free-speech zones. Talk about reasons for vouchers...  I can send my child to the school that teaches academic subjects in a controlled environment.  And they can send theirs to the school of protesting the Man and righteous outrage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a shirt designed to be provocative.  And I think some people here are pulling our legs and can&#8217;t possibly believe public schools should be some kind of absolute free-speech zones. Talk about reasons for vouchers&#8230;  I can send my child to the school that teaches academic subjects in a controlled environment.  And they can send theirs to the school of protesting the Man and righteous outrage.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy Freeman</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/censoring-t-shirts/comment-page-1/#comment-83485</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5858#comment-83485</guid>
		<description>Fourth grader boys fight over lots of things.  In fact, fighting is pretty much the natural state of fourth grade boys.  As a result, it&#039;s absurd to argue for banning this shirt because it was mentioned while they were fighting because they&#039;d have been fighting over something else (and were the day before and after).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fourth grader boys fight over lots of things.  In fact, fighting is pretty much the natural state of fourth grade boys.  As a result, it&#8217;s absurd to argue for banning this shirt because it was mentioned while they were fighting because they&#8217;d have been fighting over something else (and were the day before and after).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Dynamic Page Served (once) in 0.444 seconds -->
