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	<title>Comments on: Algebra for kids who can&#039;t multiply</title>
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	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: Downtowner</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/algebra-for-kids-who-cant-multiply/#comment-39780</link>
		<dc:creator>Downtowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 18:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5855#comment-39780</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know which teachers cj is thinking of, but I know we try to use every possible method to reach the students in my district.  It is an uphill struggle.

First, there are those whose families actually oppose intervention and attempts to assist (see the gang family thread).  Second, there are also many of these kids who have no idea how to count when they enter kindergarten, and who have spent many hours watching videos instead of learning how to learn from a caring caregiver.  Third, the all important preschool years are often totally free of academic learning (numbers, colors, alphabet, etc.).  You would be amazed at the number of kids who have no foundation when they enter kindergarten.

The state standards for California introduce &quot;algebra&quot; in Kindergarten using sorting and classifying.  In first grade, students are supposed to use basic addition and subtraction &quot;number sentences&quot;.  Second grade students are supposed to tackle simple word problems and charts.  They are also supposed to learn the commutative and associative rules.  By third grade, they are supposed to be used to the idea of using equations.  In fourth, they are supposed to be introduced to unknowns and learn how to use parentheses to change the order of operations.  In fifth, they are expected to create function tables, derive equations, and plot the results on coordinate planes.  If they actually do these things, they are ready for middle school math. (Look at the http://cde.ca.gov site under standards to read the math standards.)

The textbooks adopted in some districts fail to support these state standards, because they were created before the standards were written and they are not yet up for replacement in the textbook purchase cycle.  Teachers are expected to teach the standards, but they may have no materials to use to do so.  Those materials are expensive to purchase, and time consuming to produce from scratch.  Between dealing with the frustration of families who actively resist education, the cost of purchasing materials on a teacher&#039;s salary, and the lack of time to make materials to support students, a teacher may well wind up just using the textbook out of desperation.

Requiring all students to take Algebra at the middle school level without also providing support  materials for elementary teachers is  crazy.  Districts tell teachers to create &quot;centers&quot; for math to address the needs of students, but the materials for the centers are not provided.  It is very frustrating, expensive, and exhausting to try to fill the gap between the standards and the available support materials. I know I just finished analyzing my class&#039; performance, and my room needs centers for fourteen different math topics ranging from basic addition to advanced work.  I am lucky.  I have parent volunteers this year who will help out by supervising the centers when the kids use them.  That lets me do the actual teaching, rather than policing behavior.  Whole class instruction isn&#039;t adequate for the needs of the kids.

If you have the time or the money, please identify an elementary school where you can volunteer to help make or purchase materials for math centers.  If you are a parent with young kids and have the time, ask the teacher if you can help manage a set of centers during math time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know which teachers cj is thinking of, but I know we try to use every possible method to reach the students in my district.  It is an uphill struggle.</p>
<p>First, there are those whose families actually oppose intervention and attempts to assist (see the gang family thread).  Second, there are also many of these kids who have no idea how to count when they enter kindergarten, and who have spent many hours watching videos instead of learning how to learn from a caring caregiver.  Third, the all important preschool years are often totally free of academic learning (numbers, colors, alphabet, etc.).  You would be amazed at the number of kids who have no foundation when they enter kindergarten.</p>
<p>The state standards for California introduce &#8220;algebra&#8221; in Kindergarten using sorting and classifying.  In first grade, students are supposed to use basic addition and subtraction &#8220;number sentences&#8221;.  Second grade students are supposed to tackle simple word problems and charts.  They are also supposed to learn the commutative and associative rules.  By third grade, they are supposed to be used to the idea of using equations.  In fourth, they are supposed to be introduced to unknowns and learn how to use parentheses to change the order of operations.  In fifth, they are expected to create function tables, derive equations, and plot the results on coordinate planes.  If they actually do these things, they are ready for middle school math. (Look at the <a href="http://cde.ca.gov" rel="nofollow">http://cde.ca.gov</a> site under standards to read the math standards.)</p>
<p>The textbooks adopted in some districts fail to support these state standards, because they were created before the standards were written and they are not yet up for replacement in the textbook purchase cycle.  Teachers are expected to teach the standards, but they may have no materials to use to do so.  Those materials are expensive to purchase, and time consuming to produce from scratch.  Between dealing with the frustration of families who actively resist education, the cost of purchasing materials on a teacher&#8217;s salary, and the lack of time to make materials to support students, a teacher may well wind up just using the textbook out of desperation.</p>
<p>Requiring all students to take Algebra at the middle school level without also providing support  materials for elementary teachers is  crazy.  Districts tell teachers to create &#8220;centers&#8221; for math to address the needs of students, but the materials for the centers are not provided.  It is very frustrating, expensive, and exhausting to try to fill the gap between the standards and the available support materials. I know I just finished analyzing my class&#8217; performance, and my room needs centers for fourteen different math topics ranging from basic addition to advanced work.  I am lucky.  I have parent volunteers this year who will help out by supervising the centers when the kids use them.  That lets me do the actual teaching, rather than policing behavior.  Whole class instruction isn&#8217;t adequate for the needs of the kids.</p>
<p>If you have the time or the money, please identify an elementary school where you can volunteer to help make or purchase materials for math centers.  If you are a parent with young kids and have the time, ask the teacher if you can help manage a set of centers during math time.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/algebra-for-kids-who-cant-multiply/#comment-39779</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 02:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5855#comment-39779</guid>
		<description>In most schools, you cannot take chemistry I w/out at least a grade of C or better in Algebra I (though with grade inflation it&#039;s more like a D or F grade in real life).

You cannot succeed in chemistry or physics without a solid background in algebra (simply NOT possible).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In most schools, you cannot take chemistry I w/out at least a grade of C or better in Algebra I (though with grade inflation it&#8217;s more like a D or F grade in real life).</p>
<p>You cannot succeed in chemistry or physics without a solid background in algebra (simply NOT possible).</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine C.</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/algebra-for-kids-who-cant-multiply/#comment-39778</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 03:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5855#comment-39778</guid>
		<description>This.

This is why I teach middle school math - the remedial kids.

Well, this and you get way more &#039;lightbulb moments&#039; with these kids!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This.</p>
<p>This is why I teach middle school math &#8211; the remedial kids.</p>
<p>Well, this and you get way more &#8216;lightbulb moments&#8217; with these kids!</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/algebra-for-kids-who-cant-multiply/#comment-39777</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5855#comment-39777</guid>
		<description>Try teaching how to calculate pH using logarithms in a chemistry class to students who don&#039;t have basic math skills!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try teaching how to calculate pH using logarithms in a chemistry class to students who don&#8217;t have basic math skills!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Ball</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/algebra-for-kids-who-cant-multiply/#comment-39776</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Ball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5855#comment-39776</guid>
		<description>CJ it&#039;s not really a new problem-a quick dig back shows us that kids weren&#039;t learning basic math skills as early as twenty years ago.  I&#039;d suggest that all four of your listed reasons apply to this problem-and have for a long time, especially as calculators moved from colleges, to high schools, down to grade schools in some areas.  Math is a skill, if you don&#039;t use it, you lose it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CJ it&#8217;s not really a new problem-a quick dig back shows us that kids weren&#8217;t learning basic math skills as early as twenty years ago.  I&#8217;d suggest that all four of your listed reasons apply to this problem-and have for a long time, especially as calculators moved from colleges, to high schools, down to grade schools in some areas.  Math is a skill, if you don&#8217;t use it, you lose it.</p>
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		<title>By: cj</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/algebra-for-kids-who-cant-multiply/#comment-39775</link>
		<dc:creator>cj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 01:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5855#comment-39775</guid>
		<description>Why can&#039;t our elementary schools teach basic math?

I think that is the question to be asked.

As a parent of elementary students, my answer would be:

1) The teachers don&#039;t know (i.e., incompentent personnel)

2) The teachers can&#039;t teach (i.e., awash in Ed School &quot;methodologies&quot; that gained a generation of Ph.D.s but went nowhere)

3) No demand that teachers teach and students learn before promotion (for BOTH entities.

4) Misc. curricula taking place of the 3 &#039;Rs. (i.e., instead of reading, writing and arithmatic, we think schools have to teach character development, tolerance, etc.)

There is no excuse for the lack of understanding of basic (and I mean BASIC) math, english, grammar other than a lack of compentent teachers and a lack of focus on the fundamentals. No Excuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why can&#8217;t our elementary schools teach basic math?</p>
<p>I think that is the question to be asked.</p>
<p>As a parent of elementary students, my answer would be:</p>
<p>1) The teachers don&#8217;t know (i.e., incompentent personnel)</p>
<p>2) The teachers can&#8217;t teach (i.e., awash in Ed School &#8220;methodologies&#8221; that gained a generation of Ph.D.s but went nowhere)</p>
<p>3) No demand that teachers teach and students learn before promotion (for BOTH entities.</p>
<p>4) Misc. curricula taking place of the 3 &#8216;Rs. (i.e., instead of reading, writing and arithmatic, we think schools have to teach character development, tolerance, etc.)</p>
<p>There is no excuse for the lack of understanding of basic (and I mean BASIC) math, english, grammar other than a lack of compentent teachers and a lack of focus on the fundamentals. No Excuse.</p>
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		<title>By: Independent George</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/algebra-for-kids-who-cant-multiply/#comment-39774</link>
		<dc:creator>Independent George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 01:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5855#comment-39774</guid>
		<description>I keep thinking of the Derek Zoolander Center For Kids Who Can&#039;t Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep thinking of the Derek Zoolander Center For Kids Who Can&#8217;t Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/algebra-for-kids-who-cant-multiply/#comment-39773</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5855#comment-39773</guid>
		<description>Bill,

In one of my summer jobs, the cash register would only take a total, so we had to add up the order in our head, tell the customer what he/she owed, ring up the total, and then make change.

Fortunately the menu was limited:  hot dogs, coneys, doubles (hot dog, coney or mixed), soda, premium beer, and ordinary beer.

It was still a fun challenge, and not every worker was able to handle it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill,</p>
<p>In one of my summer jobs, the cash register would only take a total, so we had to add up the order in our head, tell the customer what he/she owed, ring up the total, and then make change.</p>
<p>Fortunately the menu was limited:  hot dogs, coneys, doubles (hot dog, coney or mixed), soda, premium beer, and ordinary beer.</p>
<p>It was still a fun challenge, and not every worker was able to handle it.</p>
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		<title>By: Momindant</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/algebra-for-kids-who-cant-multiply/#comment-39772</link>
		<dc:creator>Momindant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5855#comment-39772</guid>
		<description>pm has it. algebra can begin in kindergarten, and should, period. All math skills are abstract, once you leave one-on-one correspondence counting, and to &quot;save&quot; the &quot;Algebra&quot; for a designated grade is to infuse the subject with undeserved mystery and unnecessary terror. Most of beginning algebra&#039;s abstractions are best introduced with physical manipulatives, like balance beams and blocks, and that type of kinesthetic method is not something you&#039;re likely to find in middle and high school classrooms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pm has it. algebra can begin in kindergarten, and should, period. All math skills are abstract, once you leave one-on-one correspondence counting, and to &#8220;save&#8221; the &#8220;Algebra&#8221; for a designated grade is to infuse the subject with undeserved mystery and unnecessary terror. Most of beginning algebra&#8217;s abstractions are best introduced with physical manipulatives, like balance beams and blocks, and that type of kinesthetic method is not something you&#8217;re likely to find in middle and high school classrooms.</p>
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		<title>By: Lori</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/09/algebra-for-kids-who-cant-multiply/#comment-39771</link>
		<dc:creator>Lori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5855#comment-39771</guid>
		<description>I think most kids can be caught up in a year or two with a lot of work.  A LOT of work, though.  When our elementary started using &quot;Everyday Math&quot; for my 3rd child, I thought it was going to take 2 years at home, in middle school, with an &quot;old fashioned&quot; math program (we chose Saxon) to catch her up in math and prepare her for algebra.  It actually didn&#039;t take that long.  It was a real struggle that first year, but by the end of 6th grade she was caught up and by mid 7th she had mastered the pre-algebra material.  And she is not a &quot;math-minded&quot; individual like my older two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think most kids can be caught up in a year or two with a lot of work.  A LOT of work, though.  When our elementary started using &#8220;Everyday Math&#8221; for my 3rd child, I thought it was going to take 2 years at home, in middle school, with an &#8220;old fashioned&#8221; math program (we chose Saxon) to catch her up in math and prepare her for algebra.  It actually didn&#8217;t take that long.  It was a real struggle that first year, but by the end of 6th grade she was caught up and by mid 7th she had mastered the pre-algebra material.  And she is not a &#8220;math-minded&#8221; individual like my older two.</p>
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