North Dakota was some years ago the only US State to achieve a level of performance on a par with Singapore. In the 1996 TIMSS, the Singapore 5th (fifth) percentile score (8th grade Math) was higher than the US 50th (fiftieth) percentile score. If schooling determines income, our valedictorians will shine their janitors’ shoes.

Whether the college experience is worth the cost in time and money is another value judgment. The level of subsidy and the availabiliy of less time-consuming options (e.g., credit by exam) influence the decision to attend college. If all you want is “education”, read a book or twelve. You don’t need to kiss some professor’s
toes.

-Mark Roulo

Yes, I’ve seen those data , and they come out as you suggest. Also, the PISA report has an interesting analysis on how first-generation immigrants fare on that test. Their scores are indistinguishable from native-borns in some countries, e.g., Canada

Who is saying that?

The NCLB says that nearly every kid (the bottom 1% can be held to different standards) has to pass tests in reading and mathematics. I don’t know of anything in the NCLB that prevents schools from providing a larger amount of education to any proportion of kids.

I don’t know anyone who believes that the bottom 20% of kids can succeed the same as the top 20%. I think you are attacking a strawman here.

Among the many problems with this line of reasoning is the fact that roughly 35 percent — not 10 percent — of young adults actually do earn bachelor’s degrees.

Note that this is after the effects of the Vietnam college deferments and the explosion in hyphenated-studies degree programs.

How has the fraction of the population receiving bachelorates in areas with well-defined and hard-to-fake criteria for competence — e.g. math, science, and engineering — changed over that period?  I doubt that it has gone beyond about 10%.

I completely agree with this comment. I’ve read The Bell Curve and Murray’s WSJ op-eds, and while I disagree with his remedies, he has a certain amount of truth on his side.

Kevin Carey, whom I don’t know at all, does a disservice to the larger debate with this sanctimonious review. He’s throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Another way to do this is to find a part of the US that is relatively homogeneous. Iowa and Minnesota (and probably North Dakota) probably fit the bill.

-Mark Roulo

Is it possible that the better outcomes other countries (Finland & Japan) produce has something to do with the relatively homogeneous nature of their culture?

In areas in Scandinavia that have high levels of immigration, they are experiencing some of the same social and educational difficulties we are, Malmo, Sweden is a specific example. I believe, but can’t provide evidence, that the deviation between ethnic Swedes and immigrant are considerable.

I think, to the extent that it’s possible, we should be comparing apples to apples. Can we campare educational outcomes from the US to a country with a similarily complex ethnic/cultural mix?

I would really appreciate more information on this topic.

I haven’t read the book in question, but my guess is that a large part of his explanation is that Singapore, Finland, etc. tend to have fewer Black and Hispanic students.

-Mark Roulo