Comments on: English to Chinglish to Panglish. http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-to-chinglish-to-panglish/ Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:51:22 +0000 hourly 1 By: digglit http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-to-chinglish-to-panglish/#comment-37731 digglit Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:04:21 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5647#comment-37731 history of the worldsh to Chinglish to Panglish. at Joanne Jacobs history of the worldsh to Chinglish to Panglish. at Joanne Jacobs

]]> By: Kelly A. Mezick http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-to-chinglish-to-panglish/#comment-37730 Kelly A. Mezick Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:57:43 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5647#comment-37730 These are all great view points. I studied linguistics in college and really enjoyed the things I learned. This article and your comments made me realize what an exciting field linguistics is. I do agree that languages evolve over time because of mistakes being made over and over again. The example of “again” from Half Canadian was great. Languages will always evolve and merge, changing our “standards” and the way we view language itself. Kelly A. Mezick Auburn University Auburn, Alabama These are all great view points. I studied linguistics in college and really enjoyed the things I learned. This article and your comments made me realize what an exciting field linguistics is. I do agree that languages evolve over time because of mistakes being made over and over again. The example of “again” from Half Canadian was great. Languages will always evolve and merge, changing our “standards” and the way we view language itself.

Kelly A. Mezick
Auburn University
Auburn, Alabama

]]> By: Peter http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-to-chinglish-to-panglish/#comment-37729 Peter Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:18:24 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5647#comment-37729 @ Half Canadian - "Mistakes are a way in which language changes. There are others, but it is a significant one." In a sense, this is certainly true (at least for a broad definition of "mistake"); a similar formulation you sometimes hear is that linguistic change is driven by laziness. (There are, of course, other drivers of change as well). However, the mistakes or laziness that cause a language to change come from *native speakers,* not from people who are learning the language as a second language. @ NYC Educator - *All* languages evolve. English's premier spot in the language hierarchy has everything to do with the geopolitical importance of first the British Empire and then the US. English as a language is no more (or less) suited to being the premier language than French or German or Polish, all of which have also evolved. (Although I do think that a language with a non-roman alphabet would be at a disadvantage). English is also in a very good position now due to the phenomenon of increasing returns. That is, because so many people already speak English (mostly as a second language) it is the language that non-speakers benefit the most from learning. @ Half Canadian -

“Mistakes are a way in which language changes. There are others, but it is a significant one.”

In a sense, this is certainly true (at least for a broad definition of “mistake”); a similar formulation you sometimes hear is that linguistic change is driven by laziness. (There are, of course, other drivers of change as well). However, the mistakes or laziness that cause a language to change come from *native speakers,* not from people who are learning the language as a second language.

@ NYC Educator -

*All* languages evolve. English’s premier spot in the language hierarchy has everything to do with the geopolitical importance of first the British Empire and then the US. English as a language is no more (or less) suited to being the premier language than French or German or Polish, all of which have also evolved. (Although I do think that a language with a non-roman alphabet would be at a disadvantage).

English is also in a very good position now due to the phenomenon of increasing returns. That is, because so many people already speak English (mostly as a second language) it is the language that non-speakers benefit the most from learning.

]]> By: NYC Educator http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-to-chinglish-to-panglish/#comment-37728 NYC Educator Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:22:15 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5647#comment-37728 Some great comments here. I always wonder at people who mistake grammar books for the Ten Commandments. Of course we teach kids standard English. But its ability to evolve has certainly contributed to making American English the most successful language in the history of the world. Some great comments here. I always wonder at people who mistake grammar books for the Ten Commandments. Of course we teach kids standard English. But its ability to evolve has certainly contributed to making American English the most successful language in the history of the world.

]]> By: Half Canadian http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-to-chinglish-to-panglish/#comment-37727 Half Canadian Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:48:29 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5647#comment-37727 Peter, 'mistakes' are how languages evolve. Look at the pronunciation of 'again'. Most people in the states say 'agin', but the Queen's English is 'agane'. Add been (most pronounce as 'bin'), and a few others I can't think of. Improperly used words is another one. Gay did use to mean happy, but it's primary definition is no longer that. While we as individuals may not be the masters of words, society is. They can change the meaning. Add slang to this as well. And grammar? Well, like, I don't know, it could be . . . That changes too. Mistakes are a way in which language changes. There are others, but it is a significant one. Peter, ‘mistakes’ are how languages evolve. Look at the pronunciation of ‘again’. Most people in the states say ‘agin’, but the Queen’s English is ‘agane’. Add been (most pronounce as ‘bin’), and a few others I can’t think of.

Improperly used words is another one. Gay did use to mean happy, but it’s primary definition is no longer that. While we as individuals may not be the masters of words, society is. They can change the meaning. Add slang to this as well.

And grammar? Well, like, I don’t know, it could be . . . That changes too.

Mistakes are a way in which language changes. There are others, but it is a significant one.

]]> By: BadaBing http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-to-chinglish-to-panglish/#comment-37726 BadaBing Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:48:51 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5647#comment-37726 Cromulent: <i>adj</i>, fine, acceptable. Usage: slang. Thanks, Peter. Cromulent: adj, fine, acceptable. Usage: slang.

Thanks, Peter.

]]> By: Peter http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-to-chinglish-to-panglish/#comment-37725 Peter Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:12:12 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5647#comment-37725 This is a poor article than anyone with actual linguistic knowledge would laugh at. While it is certainly true that English has - and will continue to - change ("stop the bakkie at the robot" is a perfectly cromulent sentence in South African English that most Americans will find puzzling), the examples given in the article are of mistakes made by language learners, not of actual language evolution. Millions of English speakers may say "je aimer vous" while trying to say "je t'aime", but that doesn't mean that French is evolving in that direction. It's just a common mistake caused by substituting grammar of the mother tongue for grammar of the second language. This is a poor article than anyone with actual linguistic knowledge would laugh at. While it is certainly true that English has – and will continue to – change (“stop the bakkie at the robot” is a perfectly cromulent sentence in South African English that most Americans will find puzzling), the examples given in the article are of mistakes made by language learners, not of actual language evolution.

Millions of English speakers may say “je aimer vous” while trying to say “je t’aime”, but that doesn’t mean that French is evolving in that direction. It’s just a common mistake caused by substituting grammar of the mother tongue for grammar of the second language.

]]> By: Bill Leonard http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-to-chinglish-to-panglish/#comment-37724 Bill Leonard Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:39:29 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5647#comment-37724 As a student of English, its usage and its history, I often wonder what such a future lingua franca will look and sound like. But I'll bet it will remain lrgely intelligible to today's speakers. The great strength of the languge is its immense flexibility and the ease with which non-English words and phrases can be adapted and are accomodated. Bill As a student of English, its usage and its history, I often wonder what such a future lingua franca will look and sound like.

But I’ll bet it will remain lrgely intelligible to today’s speakers. The great strength of the languge is its immense flexibility and the ease with which non-English words and phrases can be adapted and are accomodated.

Bill

]]> By: Dawn http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-to-chinglish-to-panglish/#comment-37723 Dawn Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:52:05 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5647#comment-37723 That's what happens to language, it evolves. Personally, I think it's pretty cool. That’s what happens to language, it evolves. Personally, I think it’s pretty cool.

]]> By: Rebecca http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-to-chinglish-to-panglish/#comment-37722 Rebecca Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:52:58 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5647#comment-37722 It's a continuation of the process that brought us American English, Australian English, New Zealand English, Jamaican English... With luck, we'll continue to have a more-or-less standard written English, which serves the purpose for us that Latin did for readers in the Middle Ages, but there hasn't been a single spoken Standard English in a long time. It’s a continuation of the process that brought us American English, Australian English, New Zealand English, Jamaican English… With luck, we’ll continue to have a more-or-less standard written English, which serves the purpose for us that Latin did for readers in the Middle Ages, but there hasn’t been a single spoken Standard English in a long time.

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