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	<title>Comments on: English plus</title>
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	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: Learn Spanish</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-plus/#comment-37830</link>
		<dc:creator>Learn Spanish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5655#comment-37830</guid>
		<description>I think that latin americans that move to the states will automatically learn English. Most of our media is in English, and our schools&#039; subjects are taught in English.

I also think that people who want to remain competitive will learn Spanish without being forced to. If they want to keep their job or get promoted then they&#039;ll just have to be better than the next guy.

I started Spanish lessons because I like it. Now I&#039;m glad I did because it looks like I&#039;ll need it in the future. Here are some &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.learn-podcast-spanish.com/spanish-mothers-day-poems.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Spanish mothers day poems&lt;/a&gt; for people who like to learn through liturature. And the site also has thousands and thousands of the most common phrases you&#039;ll hear natives say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that latin americans that move to the states will automatically learn English. Most of our media is in English, and our schools&#8217; subjects are taught in English.</p>
<p>I also think that people who want to remain competitive will learn Spanish without being forced to. If they want to keep their job or get promoted then they&#8217;ll just have to be better than the next guy.</p>
<p>I started Spanish lessons because I like it. Now I&#8217;m glad I did because it looks like I&#8217;ll need it in the future. Here are some <a href="http://www.learn-podcast-spanish.com/spanish-mothers-day-poems.html" rel="nofollow">Spanish mothers day poems</a> for people who like to learn through liturature. And the site also has thousands and thousands of the most common phrases you&#8217;ll hear natives say.</p>
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		<title>By: Strausser</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-plus/#comment-37829</link>
		<dc:creator>Strausser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5655#comment-37829</guid>
		<description>ggggrrrr......boy is this a topic that get my blood boiling. Being a teacher in Arizona, the subject of how to teach non-English speaking students is a hot one.

I must admit that my views are very un-PC around here. My basic take is that it should be your obligation to learn the language of whatever country you are in and you should not expect people to learn yours just so you can go to school. This has nothing to do with which language is superior or which country is more enlightened, it just seems to be common sense. If I went to live in France, I could not imagine not having to learn French. If I lived in Spain, then learning Spanish would be my primary goal.

Now I am very sensitive to the need of educating any student that comes to my classroom so long as they are doing whatever is in their ability to learn English. But here in Arizona there is a huge push that we should not &quot;force&quot; a child to learn English but rather we need to change our classrooms and lessons to accommodate the &quot;English as a Second Language&quot; learner. And the problem is just magnified when the parents refuse to learn English so the only exposure a child gets is when they are at school.

Yes, as another poster stated, the United States does not have an &quot;official&quot; language. There may not be a law but there is no denying that we are an English-speaking country and so why do so many people think that it is unreasonable to to tell people that if you want to effectively function in this country, you need to learn the language? We are not going to force somebody to learn English just like we did not force somebody to come to this country - it was their choice and choices come with responsibilities.

Like I said before...ggggggrrrrrrrr.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ggggrrrr&#8230;&#8230;boy is this a topic that get my blood boiling. Being a teacher in Arizona, the subject of how to teach non-English speaking students is a hot one.</p>
<p>I must admit that my views are very un-PC around here. My basic take is that it should be your obligation to learn the language of whatever country you are in and you should not expect people to learn yours just so you can go to school. This has nothing to do with which language is superior or which country is more enlightened, it just seems to be common sense. If I went to live in France, I could not imagine not having to learn French. If I lived in Spain, then learning Spanish would be my primary goal.</p>
<p>Now I am very sensitive to the need of educating any student that comes to my classroom so long as they are doing whatever is in their ability to learn English. But here in Arizona there is a huge push that we should not &#8220;force&#8221; a child to learn English but rather we need to change our classrooms and lessons to accommodate the &#8220;English as a Second Language&#8221; learner. And the problem is just magnified when the parents refuse to learn English so the only exposure a child gets is when they are at school.</p>
<p>Yes, as another poster stated, the United States does not have an &#8220;official&#8221; language. There may not be a law but there is no denying that we are an English-speaking country and so why do so many people think that it is unreasonable to to tell people that if you want to effectively function in this country, you need to learn the language? We are not going to force somebody to learn English just like we did not force somebody to come to this country &#8211; it was their choice and choices come with responsibilities.</p>
<p>Like I said before&#8230;ggggggrrrrrrrr.</p>
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		<title>By: digglit</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-plus/#comment-37828</link>
		<dc:creator>digglit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5655#comment-37828</guid>
		<description>bilingualism in education and politicssh plus at  Joanne Jacobs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bilingualism in education and politicssh plus at  Joanne Jacobs</p>
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		<title>By: The Carnival of Education, #180</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-plus/#comment-37827</link>
		<dc:creator>The Carnival of Education, #180</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 04:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5655#comment-37827</guid>
		<description>[...] always something interesting over at Joanne Jacobs&#8217; blog. Check out this post called &#8220;English Plus.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] always something interesting over at Joanne Jacobs&#8217; blog. Check out this post called &#8220;English Plus.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Margo/Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-plus/#comment-37826</link>
		<dc:creator>Margo/Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5655#comment-37826</guid>
		<description>Renee:

I remember it, but the requirement was not fluency--it was two years of a high school language, quite a different thing. The systems in other countries that really achieve fluency are teaching a second language (or teaching in a second language) at the elementary level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Renee:</p>
<p>I remember it, but the requirement was not fluency&#8211;it was two years of a high school language, quite a different thing. The systems in other countries that really achieve fluency are teaching a second language (or teaching in a second language) at the elementary level.</p>
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		<title>By: Renee Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-plus/#comment-37825</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 04:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5655#comment-37825</guid>
		<description>Am I the only one who remembers when being fluent in at least one additional language  was not only required for admission to college, but a standard sign of a truly educated person?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I the only one who remembers when being fluent in at least one additional language  was not only required for admission to college, but a standard sign of a truly educated person?</p>
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		<title>By: Reality Czech</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-plus/#comment-37824</link>
		<dc:creator>Reality Czech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5655#comment-37824</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Cultures make mistakes.&lt;/blockquote&gt;In all fairness, the culture which brought the institution to the colonies was very different from the one which fought the Civil War. The earlier one made the mistake, which was not so obvious at the time. Its descendant paid the price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Cultures make mistakes.</p></blockquote>
<p>In all fairness, the culture which brought the institution to the colonies was very different from the one which fought the Civil War. The earlier one made the mistake, which was not so obvious at the time. Its descendant paid the price.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Rude</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-plus/#comment-37823</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Rude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 01:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5655#comment-37823</guid>
		<description>How strange the turns of discussion.  We started out talking about language and now are refighting the war between the states, and the combatants are both people whose comments I have admired and agreed with in the past. Is there some way to get out of this?

     I think the issue is much bigger than just the present unpleasantness.  In very real ways American has not gotten over the Civil War.  I have never lived in the south, other than growing up in Missouri, but I have come across a few people with Confederate sympathies and lingering resentments.  That war is not over.  How can we stop fighting it?

    That&#039;s a tall order, but I have a few suggestions, for both sides.

   First, be sensitive to who might identify with the Confederacy.  Don&#039;t assume everyone is on the side of the north.  If you find a person who identifies with the Confederacy, then there are certain sensitivities to consider.  Here is a parallel.  Suppose you have a new neighbor move in next door, an elderly man about seventy-five or so, and discover that during World War II he was just old enough to be a part of the Hitler Youth movement before the war ended.  Would you have certain sensitivities to consider?  And should you consider them?  I think you should.  In the mid sixties I was in the Army stationed in Germany.  That was a scant twenty years after the end of WWII.  There was the potential for conflict in the everyday interaction between Germans and Americans.  However I was not aware of any problems.  I think the basic accommodation was that we simply did not discuss the war.  (There was also the peculiar circumstance that any German we ever met would point out that he fought against the Russians, not against the Americans.  They may have fudged a little on that.)  My point is that in the interests of civility it often makes sense not to talk about old conflicts.  I think that applies when you meet someone who is not quite done fighting the Civil War.

     But many people might say this is different.  To avoid the topic of the war between the states is to give silent assent to the idea of slavery.  That certainly is a moral issue.  We are called by our consciences and by a deep national commitment to equal rights  to do the right thing.  Don&#039;t we have a moral duty to speak up for what&#039;s right?  How can we get out of this dilemma?

    Here is where I think southern sympathizers can take the initiative.  If you want to defend the Confederacy and your ancestors I think you can do so, but it would be good to start out by saying,  &quot;I don&#039;t support slavery, and I don&#039;t support discrimination, but . . . . . &quot;   That may sound a little insulting.  Why, you may ask, should you have to say that?  I think the reason is very simple.  To much of the country it seems obvious that the South was fighting to preserve slavery.  Of course reality is always more complicated than that.  Motivations are always complex.  But whether the South was fighting to preserve slavery or not you can do a lot of good by assuring everyone that you do not support slavery now, and you do not support discrimination now.  You are a part of the modern world, with modern world sensibilities.  You may also have ties to the past, and are sensitive about having your ancestors insulted.

    Should Confederate soldiers be respected?  I think they should.  Didn&#039;t they fight to preserve slavery?  I think they did, and German soldiers fought to conquer the world for Hitler.  But everyone is a slave to their culture, to a greater or lesser extent.  (Thomas Jefferson,  I understand, was bedeviled by the issue of slavery all his life and never found a solution.)  They thought they were doing the right thing at the time.  I am glad the North won the war.  It ended slavery.  But I think we can still show respect for the confederacy, just as we show respect for Germany and Japan, and people who did stupid things and ended up in jail, and people who did stupid things and canâ€˜t pay their bills, and on and on and on.

     I am not saying all cultures are equal, but I would say it&#039;s a losing proposition to argue in generalities about which culture is superior to which.  People make mistakes.  Cultures make mistakes.  Slavery was a terrible, terrible mistake.  Our country, as well as the slaves, suffered terribly as a result.  Much the same could be said about Nazism and Germany.  The way to get over it is to avoid needless conflict, to show respect for all parties involved as much as you can, and to speak carefully.

    It will be interesting to see how Obama handles all this.  Maybe the subject will never come up in the campaign, but it might, and it seems like it could be a real minefield.  What will he say when reporters ask him about some Confederate flag being displayed somewhere?  I don&#039;t know.  The speech writer who figures out something to say that would defuse the issue ought to get a peace prize.

     I do not believe in collective or hereditary guilt.  No one should be expected to apologize for the actions of their ancestors.  But neither should anyone assert that their ancestors never made mistakes.

     To Confederate sympathizers I would ask this - what do you want to pass on to your children?  I presume it is important to you that they respect their ancestors and their heritage.  No one should have any problem with that. But surely it is equally important that they not be saddled with supporting ideas that are now decisively rejected.  Surely you donâ€™t want them to be defensive all their lives.  Surely you want the war between the states to be history, not current events.   Iâ€™m not sure how to do this, but I think it deserves some very careful thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How strange the turns of discussion.  We started out talking about language and now are refighting the war between the states, and the combatants are both people whose comments I have admired and agreed with in the past. Is there some way to get out of this?</p>
<p>     I think the issue is much bigger than just the present unpleasantness.  In very real ways American has not gotten over the Civil War.  I have never lived in the south, other than growing up in Missouri, but I have come across a few people with Confederate sympathies and lingering resentments.  That war is not over.  How can we stop fighting it?</p>
<p>    That&#8217;s a tall order, but I have a few suggestions, for both sides.</p>
<p>   First, be sensitive to who might identify with the Confederacy.  Don&#8217;t assume everyone is on the side of the north.  If you find a person who identifies with the Confederacy, then there are certain sensitivities to consider.  Here is a parallel.  Suppose you have a new neighbor move in next door, an elderly man about seventy-five or so, and discover that during World War II he was just old enough to be a part of the Hitler Youth movement before the war ended.  Would you have certain sensitivities to consider?  And should you consider them?  I think you should.  In the mid sixties I was in the Army stationed in Germany.  That was a scant twenty years after the end of WWII.  There was the potential for conflict in the everyday interaction between Germans and Americans.  However I was not aware of any problems.  I think the basic accommodation was that we simply did not discuss the war.  (There was also the peculiar circumstance that any German we ever met would point out that he fought against the Russians, not against the Americans.  They may have fudged a little on that.)  My point is that in the interests of civility it often makes sense not to talk about old conflicts.  I think that applies when you meet someone who is not quite done fighting the Civil War.</p>
<p>     But many people might say this is different.  To avoid the topic of the war between the states is to give silent assent to the idea of slavery.  That certainly is a moral issue.  We are called by our consciences and by a deep national commitment to equal rights  to do the right thing.  Don&#8217;t we have a moral duty to speak up for what&#8217;s right?  How can we get out of this dilemma?</p>
<p>    Here is where I think southern sympathizers can take the initiative.  If you want to defend the Confederacy and your ancestors I think you can do so, but it would be good to start out by saying,  &#8220;I don&#8217;t support slavery, and I don&#8217;t support discrimination, but . . . . . &#8221;   That may sound a little insulting.  Why, you may ask, should you have to say that?  I think the reason is very simple.  To much of the country it seems obvious that the South was fighting to preserve slavery.  Of course reality is always more complicated than that.  Motivations are always complex.  But whether the South was fighting to preserve slavery or not you can do a lot of good by assuring everyone that you do not support slavery now, and you do not support discrimination now.  You are a part of the modern world, with modern world sensibilities.  You may also have ties to the past, and are sensitive about having your ancestors insulted.</p>
<p>    Should Confederate soldiers be respected?  I think they should.  Didn&#8217;t they fight to preserve slavery?  I think they did, and German soldiers fought to conquer the world for Hitler.  But everyone is a slave to their culture, to a greater or lesser extent.  (Thomas Jefferson,  I understand, was bedeviled by the issue of slavery all his life and never found a solution.)  They thought they were doing the right thing at the time.  I am glad the North won the war.  It ended slavery.  But I think we can still show respect for the confederacy, just as we show respect for Germany and Japan, and people who did stupid things and ended up in jail, and people who did stupid things and canâ€˜t pay their bills, and on and on and on.</p>
<p>     I am not saying all cultures are equal, but I would say it&#8217;s a losing proposition to argue in generalities about which culture is superior to which.  People make mistakes.  Cultures make mistakes.  Slavery was a terrible, terrible mistake.  Our country, as well as the slaves, suffered terribly as a result.  Much the same could be said about Nazism and Germany.  The way to get over it is to avoid needless conflict, to show respect for all parties involved as much as you can, and to speak carefully.</p>
<p>    It will be interesting to see how Obama handles all this.  Maybe the subject will never come up in the campaign, but it might, and it seems like it could be a real minefield.  What will he say when reporters ask him about some Confederate flag being displayed somewhere?  I don&#8217;t know.  The speech writer who figures out something to say that would defuse the issue ought to get a peace prize.</p>
<p>     I do not believe in collective or hereditary guilt.  No one should be expected to apologize for the actions of their ancestors.  But neither should anyone assert that their ancestors never made mistakes.</p>
<p>     To Confederate sympathizers I would ask this &#8211; what do you want to pass on to your children?  I presume it is important to you that they respect their ancestors and their heritage.  No one should have any problem with that. But surely it is equally important that they not be saddled with supporting ideas that are now decisively rejected.  Surely you donâ€™t want them to be defensive all their lives.  Surely you want the war between the states to be history, not current events.   Iâ€™m not sure how to do this, but I think it deserves some very careful thought.</p>
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		<title>By: AndrÃ© Kenji</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-plus/#comment-37822</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrÃ© Kenji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5655#comment-37822</guid>
		<description>Spanish is the second most spoken language in the West. Learning a Latin language is good because given that most Latin languages have the same structure is easy to learn another Latin Languages. For people interested in international affair being able to read the Le Monde is priceless and for people with an History of Art major being able to read in Italian is good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spanish is the second most spoken language in the West. Learning a Latin language is good because given that most Latin languages have the same structure is easy to learn another Latin Languages. For people interested in international affair being able to read the Le Monde is priceless and for people with an History of Art major being able to read in Italian is good.</p>
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		<title>By: AndrÃ© Kenji</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/english-plus/#comment-37821</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrÃ© Kenji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5655#comment-37821</guid>
		<description>&quot;Before we get our undies all twisted about multilingualism, letâ€™s agressively teach mastery of English.&quot;

Learning a second language helps you to master your native language. You learn another structure of words and verbs and you train your language skills to the hardest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Before we get our undies all twisted about multilingualism, letâ€™s agressively teach mastery of English.&#8221;</p>
<p>Learning a second language helps you to master your native language. You learn another structure of words and verbs and you train your language skills to the hardest.</p>
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