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	<title>Comments on: Algebra for all California 8th graders</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/algebra-for-all-california-8th-graders/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:52:13 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Crimson Wife</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/algebra-for-all-california-8th-graders/#comment-37784</link>
		<dc:creator>Crimson Wife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 04:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5654#comment-37784</guid>
		<description>Are you seriously claiming that a kindergartener&#039;s brain is capable of the same level of thinking as an eighth grader&#039;s given the &quot;proper&quot; instruction? Anybody who&#039;s spent time around kids of different ages knows that&#039;s nonsense...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you seriously claiming that a kindergartener&#8217;s brain is capable of the same level of thinking as an eighth grader&#8217;s given the &#8220;proper&#8221; instruction? Anybody who&#8217;s spent time around kids of different ages knows that&#8217;s nonsense&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Hot Dog Cool Cat</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/algebra-for-all-california-8th-graders/#comment-37783</link>
		<dc:creator>Hot Dog Cool Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 04:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5654#comment-37783</guid>
		<description>Famous education &quot;pioneers&quot; like Piaget have no influence outside of college Education departments. He studied neurology? I don&#039;t recall him ever going to medical school, or studying any brains from the inside out to see how they worked.

Like most modern educrats, he was a believer in his own propoganda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Famous education &#8220;pioneers&#8221; like Piaget have no influence outside of college Education departments. He studied neurology? I don&#8217;t recall him ever going to medical school, or studying any brains from the inside out to see how they worked.</p>
<p>Like most modern educrats, he was a believer in his own propoganda.</p>
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		<title>By: Myrtle</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/algebra-for-all-california-8th-graders/#comment-37782</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrtle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 06:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5654#comment-37782</guid>
		<description>Piaget makes no sense to me.

Children are capable of abstract thought when they use words to represent concepts. The digits that kindergartners use are abstractions of concepts that are in and of themselves abstractions. The symbols representing the operations of arithmetic are abstract and so is reading for that matter.

The question is what exactly is the principled difference between the abstraction in algebra and the abstraction the child is already capable of? (In fact, much that passes as algebra these days, rather than requiring high degrees of abstraction, requires almost no sentience at all--computers can be programed to solve the equations.)

What does &quot;developmentaly appropriate&quot; mean in the context of a task which a nonsentient calculator or computer can do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Piaget makes no sense to me.</p>
<p>Children are capable of abstract thought when they use words to represent concepts. The digits that kindergartners use are abstractions of concepts that are in and of themselves abstractions. The symbols representing the operations of arithmetic are abstract and so is reading for that matter.</p>
<p>The question is what exactly is the principled difference between the abstraction in algebra and the abstraction the child is already capable of? (In fact, much that passes as algebra these days, rather than requiring high degrees of abstraction, requires almost no sentience at all&#8211;computers can be programed to solve the equations.)</p>
<p>What does &#8220;developmentaly appropriate&#8221; mean in the context of a task which a nonsentient calculator or computer can do?</p>
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		<title>By: History of Mathematics Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Comment on Algebra for all California 8th graders by Crimson Wife</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/algebra-for-all-california-8th-graders/#comment-37781</link>
		<dc:creator>History of Mathematics Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Comment on Algebra for all California 8th graders by Crimson Wife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5654#comment-37781</guid>
		<description>[...] Sean Cavanagh: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sean Cavanagh: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ragnarok</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/algebra-for-all-california-8th-graders/#comment-37780</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragnarok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 01:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5654#comment-37780</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;So the difficulty I had with calculus at age 17 had nothing to do with being dumb, lazy, or unprepared.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Of course not, but that doesn&#039;t mean that everyone will be ready for abstract thought at some point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;So the difficulty I had with calculus at age 17 had nothing to do with being dumb, lazy, or unprepared.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Of course not, but that doesn&#8217;t mean that everyone will be ready for abstract thought at some point.</p>
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		<title>By: Crimson Wife</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/algebra-for-all-california-8th-graders/#comment-37779</link>
		<dc:creator>Crimson Wife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5654#comment-37779</guid>
		<description>Algebra requires abstract thinking, what Jean Piaget called the &quot;formal operational&quot; stage. This usually kicks in around puberty and probably has something to do with the myelinisation of neurons. It&#039;s neurology, folks, not bad teaching. A child who has not reached the proper stage of cognitive development won&#039;t be able to understand it regardless of the quality of instruction he/she receives. Many children will reach the proper stage by age 13 but not all will.

And Myrtle, I graduated salutatorian of my high school class, scored 1450 on my SAT&#039;s (prior to the recentering of the mid-&#039;90&#039;s), and earned a 3.8 in science at Stanford. So the difficulty I had with calculus at age 17 had nothing to do with being dumb, lazy, or unprepared. I simply wasn&#039;t ready for it. One year later, I was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Algebra requires abstract thinking, what Jean Piaget called the &#8220;formal operational&#8221; stage. This usually kicks in around puberty and probably has something to do with the myelinisation of neurons. It&#8217;s neurology, folks, not bad teaching. A child who has not reached the proper stage of cognitive development won&#8217;t be able to understand it regardless of the quality of instruction he/she receives. Many children will reach the proper stage by age 13 but not all will.</p>
<p>And Myrtle, I graduated salutatorian of my high school class, scored 1450 on my SAT&#8217;s (prior to the recentering of the mid-&#8217;90&#8242;s), and earned a 3.8 in science at Stanford. So the difficulty I had with calculus at age 17 had nothing to do with being dumb, lazy, or unprepared. I simply wasn&#8217;t ready for it. One year later, I was.</p>
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		<title>By: History of Mathematics Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Comment on Algebra for all California 8th graders by Independent &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/algebra-for-all-california-8th-graders/#comment-37778</link>
		<dc:creator>History of Mathematics Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Comment on Algebra for all California 8th graders by Independent &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5654#comment-37778</guid>
		<description>[...] Sean Cavanagh: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sean Cavanagh: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Independent George</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/algebra-for-all-california-8th-graders/#comment-37777</link>
		<dc:creator>Independent George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5654#comment-37777</guid>
		<description>The issue here isn&#039;t algebra in 8th grade; it&#039;s adequate arithmetic in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th grade. I don&#039;t object to the requirement itself, but it seems like a passive-aggressive way of telling the schools to continually track their students&#039; progress, and remediate as needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue here isn&#8217;t algebra in 8th grade; it&#8217;s adequate arithmetic in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th grade. I don&#8217;t object to the requirement itself, but it seems like a passive-aggressive way of telling the schools to continually track their students&#8217; progress, and remediate as needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Myrtle</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/algebra-for-all-california-8th-graders/#comment-37776</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrtle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5654#comment-37776</guid>
		<description>&quot;The right teacher can lead an average classroom of kids through the beginnings of algebra in 8th grade.&quot;

I would make that plural--&quot;teachers&quot;

Not just the right teacher in the 8th grade, but the students need to have had the right teachers in the 5,6,7th grades, the right curriculum, and pushy parents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The right teacher can lead an average classroom of kids through the beginnings of algebra in 8th grade.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would make that plural&#8211;&#8221;teachers&#8221;</p>
<p>Not just the right teacher in the 8th grade, but the students need to have had the right teachers in the 5,6,7th grades, the right curriculum, and pushy parents.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/07/algebra-for-all-california-8th-graders/#comment-37775</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/?p=5654#comment-37775</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;re going to teach Algebra to 8th graders, which in general I believe is a good idea, students need to learn their arithmetic in elementary schools.  That includes math facts, long division, etc.

Middle schools should test students math abilities upon entry and start remedial efforts immediately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re going to teach Algebra to 8th graders, which in general I believe is a good idea, students need to learn their arithmetic in elementary schools.  That includes math facts, long division, etc.</p>
<p>Middle schools should test students math abilities upon entry and start remedial efforts immediately.</p>
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