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	<title>Comments on: Growing up without dad</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/06/growing-up-without-dad/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:51:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: children with divorced parents</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/06/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37026</link>
		<dc:creator>children with divorced parents</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/15/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37026</guid>
		<description>[...] and guidance. Some 28 percent of white children, 50 percent of Hispanics and 71 percent of blacks ahttp://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/15/growing-up-without-dad/Seeking Children&#039;s Forgiveness, Journalist Pens &#039;Letters From A Father&#039; The Tampa TribuneA father [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and guidance. Some 28 percent of white children, 50 percent of Hispanics and 71 percent of blacks ahttp://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/15/growing-up-without-dad/Seeking Children&#8217;s Forgiveness, Journalist Pens &#8216;Letters From A Father&#8217; The Tampa TribuneA father [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Margo/Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/06/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37025</link>
		<dc:creator>Margo/Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/15/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37025</guid>
		<description>Anon--the plural of anecdote is NOT data.

Stacy--I am not advocating that my experience proves anything. I am countering some of the folks (like Ragnarok) who categorize single parents as a group--and me in particular--as &quot;selfish,&quot; and a bunch of other things.

I gotta wonder--how come its the single moms who get the heat? Trust me, I have been doing this for a long time, and there have been no lack of teachers or others who are really angry at me because I am not the parent that they want me to be. I am not available to drop everything and run when I get a phone call. Because I am a professional person, I don&#039;t fit neatly into a properly submissive role when the district wants to bulldoze me into believing some fiction about what it is that they want to do. I would rather donate cash than clip labels to raise money for playground equipment.

Whether we like it or not--the face of parenting has changed dramatically. And having grown up with a stay at home mom who suffered all kinds of depression related ailments as a result of that suburban isolation, I am not sold on the idea that this is altogether a bad thing. Personally, I believe that I have provided a greater level of stability for my kids than others who have spent their time trying to regain a two-parent family after the first loser shoved off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon&#8211;the plural of anecdote is NOT data.</p>
<p>Stacy&#8211;I am not advocating that my experience proves anything. I am countering some of the folks (like Ragnarok) who categorize single parents as a group&#8211;and me in particular&#8211;as &#8220;selfish,&#8221; and a bunch of other things.</p>
<p>I gotta wonder&#8211;how come its the single moms who get the heat? Trust me, I have been doing this for a long time, and there have been no lack of teachers or others who are really angry at me because I am not the parent that they want me to be. I am not available to drop everything and run when I get a phone call. Because I am a professional person, I don&#8217;t fit neatly into a properly submissive role when the district wants to bulldoze me into believing some fiction about what it is that they want to do. I would rather donate cash than clip labels to raise money for playground equipment.</p>
<p>Whether we like it or not&#8211;the face of parenting has changed dramatically. And having grown up with a stay at home mom who suffered all kinds of depression related ailments as a result of that suburban isolation, I am not sold on the idea that this is altogether a bad thing. Personally, I believe that I have provided a greater level of stability for my kids than others who have spent their time trying to regain a two-parent family after the first loser shoved off.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/06/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37024</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/15/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37024</guid>
		<description>The plural of anecdote is data. The evidence is the evidence. We choose to ignore it at our peril.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The plural of anecdote is data. The evidence is the evidence. We choose to ignore it at our peril.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacy in NJ</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/06/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37023</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy in NJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/15/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37023</guid>
		<description>Margo/Mom,  I&#039;m gonna have to agree with the rightwingprof on this.  It&#039;s not about YOU.  Did you see? 53% of Hispanic kids and 71% of Black kids are fatherless.  That&#039;s terrible.  Your trying to turn your personnal experience into a truism that relates to a larger social issue.  It really doesn&#039;t fit.  Did you get pregnant as a teen?  Have multiple children without an engaged husband and use welfare as your means of support?  YOU are probably raising and loving the results of irresponsible baby making.  And, Thank God for you.

Obviously, not all fatherless children are born to teen welfare moms but a significant portion are.  The question is, at least in my mind, how to convince these young women and men that being a parent is a deeply serious commitment.  Welfare reform helped address the financial aspect of it, now we need to talk about the moral/social costs.  Previously Bill Cosby, now Juan Williams and Barack Obama, are speaking of it within the black community.  To me they seem incredibly timid.  I think it&#039;s an area that most white American won&#039;t touch, at least in company.  Ah, another 3rd rail in American politics.  We knew all this way back when Daniel Patrick Moynehan wrote about in the, was it early 70&#039;s?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Margo/Mom,  I&#8217;m gonna have to agree with the rightwingprof on this.  It&#8217;s not about YOU.  Did you see? 53% of Hispanic kids and 71% of Black kids are fatherless.  That&#8217;s terrible.  Your trying to turn your personnal experience into a truism that relates to a larger social issue.  It really doesn&#8217;t fit.  Did you get pregnant as a teen?  Have multiple children without an engaged husband and use welfare as your means of support?  YOU are probably raising and loving the results of irresponsible baby making.  And, Thank God for you.</p>
<p>Obviously, not all fatherless children are born to teen welfare moms but a significant portion are.  The question is, at least in my mind, how to convince these young women and men that being a parent is a deeply serious commitment.  Welfare reform helped address the financial aspect of it, now we need to talk about the moral/social costs.  Previously Bill Cosby, now Juan Williams and Barack Obama, are speaking of it within the black community.  To me they seem incredibly timid.  I think it&#8217;s an area that most white American won&#8217;t touch, at least in company.  Ah, another 3rd rail in American politics.  We knew all this way back when Daniel Patrick Moynehan wrote about in the, was it early 70&#8242;s?</p>
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		<title>By: Margo/Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/06/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37022</link>
		<dc:creator>Margo/Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/15/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37022</guid>
		<description>Ragnarok:

Well--actually, my kids are adopted. If you are familiar at all with how adoption works, single parents don&#039;t get &quot;healty white infants,&quot; (unless they are much further up the economic food chain than I am). Some social workers are even able to say with a straight face that kids with multiple problems do better with single parents.

So--there were not a bunch of married couples hanging around that I knocked out of line. In fact, the folks who make policy were originally willing to look at parents like me so that they could move more kids into permanent families. I have never considered myself to be opposed to being married (or being single). But it apparently matters a good deal to other people--so, yes, I say to them, bring on the matchmakers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ragnarok:</p>
<p>Well&#8211;actually, my kids are adopted. If you are familiar at all with how adoption works, single parents don&#8217;t get &#8220;healty white infants,&#8221; (unless they are much further up the economic food chain than I am). Some social workers are even able to say with a straight face that kids with multiple problems do better with single parents.</p>
<p>So&#8211;there were not a bunch of married couples hanging around that I knocked out of line. In fact, the folks who make policy were originally willing to look at parents like me so that they could move more kids into permanent families. I have never considered myself to be opposed to being married (or being single). But it apparently matters a good deal to other people&#8211;so, yes, I say to them, bring on the matchmakers.</p>
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		<title>By: Ragnarok</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/06/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37021</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragnarok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/15/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37021</guid>
		<description>Margo/Mom wrote:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;And if someone wants to send a man my way, I am willing to take another stab at riding a bicycle.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Apparently you chose to have a kid by yourself, to be a single parent, to deny your kid a chance to have a father.  Sounds pretty selfish to me.

And now you&#039;re willing to give a man a chance if someone else sends one your way? Very kind of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Margo/Mom wrote:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;And if someone wants to send a man my way, I am willing to take another stab at riding a bicycle.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Apparently you chose to have a kid by yourself, to be a single parent, to deny your kid a chance to have a father.  Sounds pretty selfish to me.</p>
<p>And now you&#8217;re willing to give a man a chance if someone else sends one your way? Very kind of you.</p>
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		<title>By: rightwingprof</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/06/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37020</link>
		<dc:creator>rightwingprof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/15/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37020</guid>
		<description>The problem is you&#039;re not pointing out exceptions; you&#039;re presenting anecdotes as evidence. I had a cousin Julie, and she inherited a million dollars, and she didn&#039;t like penises so she decided to raise a kid all by herself, and he turned out okay! So there!

Sorry, but that&#039;s crap. Individual cases say not a damned thing about the issue one way or another. Any issue, as far as that goes. See, cause somebody else had this cousin Jane, and she inherited a million dollars and raised a kid by herself and read &quot;heather has two mommies&quot; to him and he turned out to be a serial killer, but as least he wasn&#039;t judgmental!

And bringing in wages, etc., is nothing more than a strawman. These are separate issues, that bear not at all on the issue in discussion. But that&#039;s always the strawman used, isn&#039;t it? Oh, you want to go back to the fifties when men beat their wives!

What crap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is you&#8217;re not pointing out exceptions; you&#8217;re presenting anecdotes as evidence. I had a cousin Julie, and she inherited a million dollars, and she didn&#8217;t like penises so she decided to raise a kid all by herself, and he turned out okay! So there!</p>
<p>Sorry, but that&#8217;s crap. Individual cases say not a damned thing about the issue one way or another. Any issue, as far as that goes. See, cause somebody else had this cousin Jane, and she inherited a million dollars and raised a kid by herself and read &#8220;heather has two mommies&#8221; to him and he turned out to be a serial killer, but as least he wasn&#8217;t judgmental!</p>
<p>And bringing in wages, etc., is nothing more than a strawman. These are separate issues, that bear not at all on the issue in discussion. But that&#8217;s always the strawman used, isn&#8217;t it? Oh, you want to go back to the fifties when men beat their wives!</p>
<p>What crap.</p>
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		<title>By: Margo/Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/06/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37019</link>
		<dc:creator>Margo/Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/15/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37019</guid>
		<description>Supersub:

I don&#039;t know--peruse some of the following:

&quot;And I would NEVER, EVER say that we should stop criticizing single parenthood.&quot;

&quot;And it was filled by someone who respected the sacrifice of the father and made DAMN sure to say how fantastic that father was, and how important it was to respect dad, even if he had died. This is nothing like single women raising children without fathers.&quot;

&quot;Our underclass culture encourages and supports irresponsible procreation.&quot;

&quot;whatever pre 60s feminism was, 60s Feminists were anti man, anti family, and anti anything but communism. They got what they wanted, social breakdown of the family and reliance on govt. We got screwed.&quot;

Seems like there&#039;s an awful lot of painting with broad brushes going on. It&#039;s not really helpful to say &quot;well, I didn&#039;t means you.&quot; What would be helpful would be to really THINK about what people are advocating and who they are mad at--and whether the facts support their point of view. When I point out the exceptions, it is with the hope of spurring some willingness to look at whether the rules are holding true in the light of reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Supersub:</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know&#8211;peruse some of the following:</p>
<p>&#8220;And I would NEVER, EVER say that we should stop criticizing single parenthood.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;And it was filled by someone who respected the sacrifice of the father and made DAMN sure to say how fantastic that father was, and how important it was to respect dad, even if he had died. This is nothing like single women raising children without fathers.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Our underclass culture encourages and supports irresponsible procreation.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;whatever pre 60s feminism was, 60s Feminists were anti man, anti family, and anti anything but communism. They got what they wanted, social breakdown of the family and reliance on govt. We got screwed.&#8221;</p>
<p>Seems like there&#8217;s an awful lot of painting with broad brushes going on. It&#8217;s not really helpful to say &#8220;well, I didn&#8217;t means you.&#8221; What would be helpful would be to really THINK about what people are advocating and who they are mad at&#8211;and whether the facts support their point of view. When I point out the exceptions, it is with the hope of spurring some willingness to look at whether the rules are holding true in the light of reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/06/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37018</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/15/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37018</guid>
		<description>Greifer- the 60&#039;s &quot;feminism&quot; was the female counterpart to the male-led 1960&#039;s &quot;sexual liberation&quot; - i.e., a man should be able to have all the fun he wants w/out responsibilities - it was a nihilistic/commmunistic movement that had uniquely &quot;male&quot; and &quot;female&quot; counterparts.  These worked in concert to destroy our traditional culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greifer- the 60&#8242;s &#8220;feminism&#8221; was the female counterpart to the male-led 1960&#8242;s &#8220;sexual liberation&#8221; &#8211; i.e., a man should be able to have all the fun he wants w/out responsibilities &#8211; it was a nihilistic/commmunistic movement that had uniquely &#8220;male&#8221; and &#8220;female&#8221; counterparts.  These worked in concert to destroy our traditional culture.</p>
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		<title>By: SuperSub</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2008/06/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37017</link>
		<dc:creator>SuperSub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/15/growing-up-without-dad/#comment-37017</guid>
		<description>Margo -
Just to clarify... I understand that there has always been teenage pregnancy, but I was commenting that across the whole society it has become much more accepted as an inconvenient result of the &quot;normal&quot; act of sex amongst teens. This was an attempt to explain the large increase in single parentage today.

That being said, increased divorce rates and women being able to support themselves financially have also caused an increase is single parentage, but I&#039;d say their effects are minor compared to teenage pregnancy and that it is primarily teenage pregnancy that is to blame for a good part of these uncontrollable children.

Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems as if you are taking criticism meant for a whole group of unresponsible single parents as an indictment of your own situation, which is an individual case and, from the sound of it, seems to be a positive environment for children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Margo -<br />
Just to clarify&#8230; I understand that there has always been teenage pregnancy, but I was commenting that across the whole society it has become much more accepted as an inconvenient result of the &#8220;normal&#8221; act of sex amongst teens. This was an attempt to explain the large increase in single parentage today.</p>
<p>That being said, increased divorce rates and women being able to support themselves financially have also caused an increase is single parentage, but I&#8217;d say their effects are minor compared to teenage pregnancy and that it is primarily teenage pregnancy that is to blame for a good part of these uncontrollable children.</p>
<p>Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems as if you are taking criticism meant for a whole group of unresponsible single parents as an indictment of your own situation, which is an individual case and, from the sound of it, seems to be a positive environment for children.</p>
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