When to take the children

All adult mothers from a polygamous Mormon sect will be separated from their children once genetic testing to determine parentage is complete, say Texas officials. That includes mothers breastfeeding infants. More than 400 children will go into foster care.

What grounds are sufficient to terminate parental rights? Laura asks the question on 11D.

6 Responses to “When to take the children”


  • Unless these mothers are harming their children–and teaching them things we don’t agree with, like polygamy, isn’t sufficient–then this is a travesty.

    Why aren’t the fathers being mentioned at all in these stories?

  • There are two things to consider. A temporary removal based on reasonable suspicion of danger should be based on a lower standard–to allow a wide margin for safety and time to conduct an investigation.

    While polygamy per se really shouldn’t be a criteria for removing children–or even living a highly secretive and separate lifestyle–I think this one is going to really take some time to sort out. We do know that a branch of this community, under the leadership of a man now imprisoned for forcing a young girl into marriage and a physical relationship, has in fact condoned early arranged marriages, at least sometimes. While the women (and really, where are the men?)do seem like very lovely people, there are a number of red flags. One is the Jeffers case. Another is the “lost boys” in exile, and the reports of fathers being sent to “repent from afar” while their wives and children are transferred to others. The lack of information forthcoming to establish family relationships–last names, names of fathers and mothers, etc supports this concern, as well as the lack of documentation that has been reported regarding ages of children.

    I think in the end, what will have to be looked at very closely in this case will be the definition of family. If the entire community constitutes family, with interchangeable mothers and fathers, this broadens the circle from which children must be removed if there is determined to be danger. Then there is some question of what constitutes free will. While I am less troubled by women who say it is their free will to be in a subservient position, for a 16 year old to make the same statement, with regard to an arranged marriage–well it gets pretty muddy, doesn’t it?

  • “A temporary removal based on reasonable suspicion of danger should be based on a lower standard–to allow a wide margin for safety and time to conduct an investigation.”

    IMHO, Child Protective Services have the intelligence and compassion of a retarded sabre-tooth tiger.

    I don’t know enough about the FLDS case to have strong opinions about it. However, this link casts a rather dubious light on the entire episode.

    As for the lack of any news about the fathers, it’s straightforward. We’re just here to pay alimony and be pilloried by the likes of Andrea Dworkin.

  • IMHO, Child Protective Services have the intelligence and compassion of a retarded sabre-tooth tiger.

    This is TOTALLY off-topic, but I’ve been exposed to a lot of prehistoric animal videos recently (my 7-year old cares a lot …). There is no such animal as a saber-tooth tiger. There is a family of saber-tooth CATS, but none of them is a saber-tooth tiger :-)

    Carry on…

    -Mark Roulo

  • Wikipedia:

    “Despite the colloquial name of “saber-toothed tiger”, Smilodon is not closely related to a tiger, which belongs to another subfamily, the Pantherinae but is a member of the extinct subfamily Machairodontinae. The name Smilodon is a bahuvrihi from Ancient Greek: σμίλη, smilÄ“, “knife” and Ionic Greek ὀδών, odon, “tooth”). It was among the largest felids, the heaviest specimens of this massively built carnivore may have reached a body mass of up to 400 kg [1].”

    You’re right, Mark, but 400kg? That’s a bit larger than the huge Siberian tigers – ~700 lb.

    Unfortunately the Smilodon adopted very detailed work rules. For example, the senior-most got first crack at prey, in addition to tenure. This meant that the ablest hunters had to watch in despair as the (credentialed) veterans failed to do their jobs.

    Extinction…

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