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	<title>Comments on: Not really a paradox</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/not-really-a-paradox/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/not-really-a-paradox/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: allen</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35068</link>
		<dc:creator>allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 13:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/04/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35068</guid>
		<description>At least now education is important enough to justify the risk in cheating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least now education is important enough to justify the risk in cheating.</p>
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		<title>By: SusanS</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35067</link>
		<dc:creator>SusanS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/04/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35067</guid>
		<description>Hopefully, you will ignore my sad little typos. I&#039;m a big fan of preview.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully, you will ignore my sad little typos. I&#8217;m a big fan of preview.</p>
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		<title>By: SusanS</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35066</link>
		<dc:creator>SusanS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/04/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35066</guid>
		<description>Well, all children can learn, but not all children can learn the same things.  

Sorry, but I&#039;m a parent of one of these children. Developmentally, he cannot work on the level of his regular ed peers.  Period. Testing him on that level simply goes against his IEP and makes a mockery of special ed programs.

If a child&#039;s IEP goals are to shoot for reading on a 5th grade level, then why would anyone give him a reading test for an average 8th grader and then accuse the school of failing?  He can&#039;t be there. Possibly ever. 

Why bother meeting with IEP managers, SPED teachers, psychologists, and parents who come up with a plan based on a tremendous amount of testing and observation, file it with the state, and then ignore it when the state tests roll around?  

Why not test the SPED kids on the goals stated in his IEP instead of having Special Ed teachers running around in a panic trying to figure out how to get their students to magically appear average? I mean, enough already. 

One of my son&#039;s teachers was in such a panic that she wrote on the board the day before the test an equivalent fraction, decimal, and percentage and told them that these were all the same thing.  That was the extent of their fraction training. It was panic teaching at its worse. 

I realize there are kids who are put in Special ed who are really not special ed kids, but your bottom 3% with IQ&#039;s hovering around borderline simply cannot keep pace with their three-digit peers. They can certainly learn, but not as much and not as fast. 

Special ed teachers are also subjected to all of the experimental curriculums that the regular ed teachers are, but the results can more than a waste of time; they can be disasterous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, all children can learn, but not all children can learn the same things.  </p>
<p>Sorry, but I&#8217;m a parent of one of these children. Developmentally, he cannot work on the level of his regular ed peers.  Period. Testing him on that level simply goes against his IEP and makes a mockery of special ed programs.</p>
<p>If a child&#8217;s IEP goals are to shoot for reading on a 5th grade level, then why would anyone give him a reading test for an average 8th grader and then accuse the school of failing?  He can&#8217;t be there. Possibly ever. </p>
<p>Why bother meeting with IEP managers, SPED teachers, psychologists, and parents who come up with a plan based on a tremendous amount of testing and observation, file it with the state, and then ignore it when the state tests roll around?  </p>
<p>Why not test the SPED kids on the goals stated in his IEP instead of having Special Ed teachers running around in a panic trying to figure out how to get their students to magically appear average? I mean, enough already. </p>
<p>One of my son&#8217;s teachers was in such a panic that she wrote on the board the day before the test an equivalent fraction, decimal, and percentage and told them that these were all the same thing.  That was the extent of their fraction training. It was panic teaching at its worse. </p>
<p>I realize there are kids who are put in Special ed who are really not special ed kids, but your bottom 3% with IQ&#8217;s hovering around borderline simply cannot keep pace with their three-digit peers. They can certainly learn, but not as much and not as fast. </p>
<p>Special ed teachers are also subjected to all of the experimental curriculums that the regular ed teachers are, but the results can more than a waste of time; they can be disasterous.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35065</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 03:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/04/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35065</guid>
		<description>As sports and entertainment become more and more prominent in our society, I&#039;d like to propose two new massive government intervention programs:

No Child Left On the Bench 
and
No Child Not Playing an Instrument

Because clearly if every child can &quot;succeed&quot; academically, then every child can &quot;succeed&quot; athletically and artistically - all it takes is more attention and money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As sports and entertainment become more and more prominent in our society, I&#8217;d like to propose two new massive government intervention programs:</p>
<p>No Child Left On the Bench<br />
and<br />
No Child Not Playing an Instrument</p>
<p>Because clearly if every child can &#8220;succeed&#8221; academically, then every child can &#8220;succeed&#8221; athletically and artistically &#8211; all it takes is more attention and money.</p>
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		<title>By: NDC</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35064</link>
		<dc:creator>NDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2007 19:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/04/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35064</guid>
		<description>I see it now. Sorry for not reading more carefully before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see it now. Sorry for not reading more carefully before.</p>
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		<title>By: NDC</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35063</link>
		<dc:creator>NDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2007 15:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/04/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35063</guid>
		<description>Miller, 

Where are you that biology is the state NCLB test?
I didn&#039;t think that many states had science standards included yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miller, </p>
<p>Where are you that biology is the state NCLB test?<br />
I didn&#8217;t think that many states had science standards included yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Miller Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35062</link>
		<dc:creator>Miller Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2007 14:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/04/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35062</guid>
		<description>Dig what we did in PG county, MD last school year.

All students who were were failing biology by the third quarter were withdrawn from that class.  They were to take biology again in the summer.  Okay...so what?  Well, biology is our state&#039;s NCLB beanchmark test and our county schools are judged by the student&#039;s scores on that test.  Kids withdrawn from biology DID NOT take the test at the end of the year.

Almost the entire SPED population were withdrawn in some of our high schools.  Oh,  and our school system is touting the raised scores.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dig what we did in PG county, MD last school year.</p>
<p>All students who were were failing biology by the third quarter were withdrawn from that class.  They were to take biology again in the summer.  Okay&#8230;so what?  Well, biology is our state&#8217;s NCLB beanchmark test and our county schools are judged by the student&#8217;s scores on that test.  Kids withdrawn from biology DID NOT take the test at the end of the year.</p>
<p>Almost the entire SPED population were withdrawn in some of our high schools.  Oh,  and our school system is touting the raised scores.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Jan</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35061</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/04/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35061</guid>
		<description>Bravo!  When I first became a principal, Ron Edmonds has come out with the Effective Schools Movement.  Our battle cry was &quot;ALL CHILDREN CAN LEARN.&quot;  It&#039;s hard to believe that such a thought was controversial, but it was.  You can see the old prejudices behind the comments from folks who think it&#039;s okay to let special education children fall behind.  It still is controversial to believe that all children can learn.  They can and do when the time and effort is devoted to making sure that they do not get left behind.  Thanks for your insightful and positive post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo!  When I first became a principal, Ron Edmonds has come out with the Effective Schools Movement.  Our battle cry was &#8220;ALL CHILDREN CAN LEARN.&#8221;  It&#8217;s hard to believe that such a thought was controversial, but it was.  You can see the old prejudices behind the comments from folks who think it&#8217;s okay to let special education children fall behind.  It still is controversial to believe that all children can learn.  They can and do when the time and effort is devoted to making sure that they do not get left behind.  Thanks for your insightful and positive post.</p>
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		<title>By: NDC</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35060</link>
		<dc:creator>NDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2007 01:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/04/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35060</guid>
		<description>I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the NCLB modifications are pretty limited compared to what the teachers do to modify throughout the year.

In Georgia, I think the high school students can have the test read aloud and get extended time and small group settings, but beyond that, I think they get the exact same test in the same form as other students.

Here&#039;s an example that I&#039;ve heard: hearing impaired students will frequently have trouble compared to their hearing peers with Standard Written English because the syntax of sign language isn&#039;t the same as SWE. So a regular education teacher who works with a hearing impaired student all year will make accommodations and modifications for the student in terms of drafts and revisions, etc. In theory, there&#039;s no reason why a final draft of an essay would be different from a hearing peer.

But when a student takes the Georgia graduation test in writing, although the student can have extra time, ultimately the reader and grader of the writing sample submitted won&#039;t know that the student is hearing impaired, so if the student hasn&#039;t mastered the standard syntax on his or her own, he or she won&#039;t pass. And even if he or she did pass, would it be reasonable to assume that he or she would do as well as student who used the syntax of SWE in their speech everyday all day?

(Now the writing test isn&#039;t part of our NCLB testing, but it does determine whether students can get regular diplomas.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the NCLB modifications are pretty limited compared to what the teachers do to modify throughout the year.</p>
<p>In Georgia, I think the high school students can have the test read aloud and get extended time and small group settings, but beyond that, I think they get the exact same test in the same form as other students.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an example that I&#8217;ve heard: hearing impaired students will frequently have trouble compared to their hearing peers with Standard Written English because the syntax of sign language isn&#8217;t the same as SWE. So a regular education teacher who works with a hearing impaired student all year will make accommodations and modifications for the student in terms of drafts and revisions, etc. In theory, there&#8217;s no reason why a final draft of an essay would be different from a hearing peer.</p>
<p>But when a student takes the Georgia graduation test in writing, although the student can have extra time, ultimately the reader and grader of the writing sample submitted won&#8217;t know that the student is hearing impaired, so if the student hasn&#8217;t mastered the standard syntax on his or her own, he or she won&#8217;t pass. And even if he or she did pass, would it be reasonable to assume that he or she would do as well as student who used the syntax of SWE in their speech everyday all day?</p>
<p>(Now the writing test isn&#8217;t part of our NCLB testing, but it does determine whether students can get regular diplomas.)</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35059</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 23:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/04/not-really-a-paradox/#comment-35059</guid>
		<description>In Texas the students in Special Ed are far from being left behind -- especially in the large school districts.  Those that leave special needs kids behind are the general ed teachers who are myoptic to the world around them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Texas the students in Special Ed are far from being left behind &#8212; especially in the large school districts.  Those that leave special needs kids behind are the general ed teachers who are myoptic to the world around them.</p>
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