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	<title>Comments on: Math for girly girls</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/math-for-girly-girls/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/math-for-girly-girls/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: hardlyb</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35023</link>
		<dc:creator>hardlyb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 07:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/02/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35023</guid>
		<description>I read an article about the paper in question, and my recollection was that the professor said that the students had done the work with some direction from him or her. I also looked at the paper, and don&#039;t recall being stunned by it, but I do remember feeling that it was decent work, and impressive for undergraduates.

Being a mathematician is a much better job that it was even 30 years ago, but doing mathematical research doesn&#039;t pay as well as getting a recurring role on The West Wing. You can certainly make a lot of money using mathematical sophistication by running a hedge fund or coming up with exotic financial instruments (there is a well known mathematician that did the former, and friends of mine from grad school have done the latter), but it&#039;s not &quot;doing mathematics&quot;. I know several people that love golf, and play quite often, but I don&#039;t know anyone that tries to make a living at it. I do know quite a few professional mathematicians, and I&#039;m not sure how many of them would continue in that line of work if they could make 5 or 10 times as much money doing something else that they enjoyed.

Finally, one reason that real applications of mathematics don&#039;t make it into elementary textbooks is that real applications of mathematics always (in my experience, at least) require the use of a lot of mathematics. I&#039;ve worked on quite a few problems in my career, and every one of them required that I invent something non-trivial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read an article about the paper in question, and my recollection was that the professor said that the students had done the work with some direction from him or her. I also looked at the paper, and don&#8217;t recall being stunned by it, but I do remember feeling that it was decent work, and impressive for undergraduates.</p>
<p>Being a mathematician is a much better job that it was even 30 years ago, but doing mathematical research doesn&#8217;t pay as well as getting a recurring role on The West Wing. You can certainly make a lot of money using mathematical sophistication by running a hedge fund or coming up with exotic financial instruments (there is a well known mathematician that did the former, and friends of mine from grad school have done the latter), but it&#8217;s not &#8220;doing mathematics&#8221;. I know several people that love golf, and play quite often, but I don&#8217;t know anyone that tries to make a living at it. I do know quite a few professional mathematicians, and I&#8217;m not sure how many of them would continue in that line of work if they could make 5 or 10 times as much money doing something else that they enjoyed.</p>
<p>Finally, one reason that real applications of mathematics don&#8217;t make it into elementary textbooks is that real applications of mathematics always (in my experience, at least) require the use of a lot of mathematics. I&#8217;ve worked on quite a few problems in my career, and every one of them required that I invent something non-trivial.</p>
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		<title>By: Word Around the Net</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35022</link>
		<dc:creator>Word Around the Net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 16:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/02/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35022</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;GIRLY MATH...&lt;/strong&gt;

The cover has a huge pink title, and looks like a typical issue of Sassy magazine for teenage girls, and is directed at middle school girls. Why that age? Because Miss Mckellar thinks that if you catch them young enough, they&#039;ll keep their interest la...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>GIRLY MATH&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>The cover has a huge pink title, and looks like a typical issue of Sassy magazine for teenage girls, and is directed at middle school girls. Why that age? Because Miss Mckellar thinks that if you catch them young enough, they&#8217;ll keep their interest la&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom West</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35021</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 10:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/02/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35021</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I stand by my original assertion that if you love a field you stay in it.&lt;/i&gt;

So much for the renaissance man (or in this case, woman) :-).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I stand by my original assertion that if you love a field you stay in it.</i></p>
<p>So much for the renaissance man (or in this case, woman) <img src='http://www.joannejacobs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>By: Joanne</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35020</link>
		<dc:creator>Joanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 23:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/02/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35020</guid>
		<description>McKellar co-authored a paper with Brandy Winn and Prof. L. Chayes titled &quot;Percolation and Gibbs States Multiplicity for Ferromagnetic Ashkin-Teller Models in Z2.&quot;  It&#039;s referred to as the &quot;Chayes-McKellar-Winn Theorem.&quot;

My first mother-in-law was a biomedical researcher and my current husband is a &quot;consulting professor&quot; in engineering who used to be a full-time professor. It&#039;s my impression that professors tend to put their names on papers written by their grad students; they&#039;re unlikely to let undergrads put their names on the prof&#039;s paper unless the students have contributed significantly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McKellar co-authored a paper with Brandy Winn and Prof. L. Chayes titled &#8220;Percolation and Gibbs States Multiplicity for Ferromagnetic Ashkin-Teller Models in Z2.&#8221;  It&#8217;s referred to as the &#8220;Chayes-McKellar-Winn Theorem.&#8221;</p>
<p>My first mother-in-law was a biomedical researcher and my current husband is a &#8220;consulting professor&#8221; in engineering who used to be a full-time professor. It&#8217;s my impression that professors tend to put their names on papers written by their grad students; they&#8217;re unlikely to let undergrads put their names on the prof&#8217;s paper unless the students have contributed significantly.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Brandshaft</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35019</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Brandshaft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 23:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/02/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35019</guid>
		<description>Does anyone get talked into being a techie?  That isn&#039;t a rhetorical question.   I was born to be a techie, so I don&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone get talked into being a techie?  That isn&#8217;t a rhetorical question.   I was born to be a techie, so I don&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>By: Howitzer</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35018</link>
		<dc:creator>Howitzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 20:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/02/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35018</guid>
		<description>Cal, I had the same question.  I&#039;m not convinced this is a gender issue. I know plenty of math and science challenged males, although they don&#039;t seem to admit it quite so readily. Diane Ravitch has an article challenging the claim that girls aren&#039;t as prepared as boys: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brook.edu/views/op-ed/ravitch/19981217.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Girls are Beneficiaries of Gender Gap&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind98/pdf/document.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This&lt;/a&gt; 1998 NSF report says &quot;High school females are now more likely
than males to have taken geometry and algebra 2, and about
as likely to have completed calculus.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cal, I had the same question.  I&#8217;m not convinced this is a gender issue. I know plenty of math and science challenged males, although they don&#8217;t seem to admit it quite so readily. Diane Ravitch has an article challenging the claim that girls aren&#8217;t as prepared as boys: <a href="http://www.brook.edu/views/op-ed/ravitch/19981217.htm" rel="nofollow">Girls are Beneficiaries of Gender Gap</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind98/pdf/document.pdf" rel="nofollow">This</a> 1998 NSF report says &#8220;High school females are now more likely<br />
than males to have taken geometry and algebra 2, and about<br />
as likely to have completed calculus.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Myrtle</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35017</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrtle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 19:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/02/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35017</guid>
		<description>Correction: Theorems are NOT co-authored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction: Theorems are NOT co-authored.</p>
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		<title>By: Myrtle</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35016</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrtle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 19:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/02/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35016</guid>
		<description>JJ,

Theorems are &quot;co-authored&quot;, articles in journals can be co-authored. The professor writes a paper and she&#039;s allowed to put her name on it. I stand by my original assertion that if you love a field you stay in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJ,</p>
<p>Theorems are &#8220;co-authored&#8221;, articles in journals can be co-authored. The professor writes a paper and she&#8217;s allowed to put her name on it. I stand by my original assertion that if you love a field you stay in it.</p>
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		<title>By: Walter E. Wallis</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35015</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter E. Wallis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 18:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/02/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35015</guid>
		<description>Would this work with &quot;delicate&quot; boys?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would this work with &#8220;delicate&#8221; boys?</p>
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		<title>By: david foster</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/08/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35014</link>
		<dc:creator>david foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/08/02/math-for-girly-girls/#comment-35014</guid>
		<description>I think that in general, math courses don&#039;t put enough emphasis on applications. The ones that are used often seem very contrived; I suspect this is partly because the people writing the textbooks have limited exposure to real-world math.

Yet 90% of people will learn something more readily if they are given some idea of what it can be used for. So, bring on the applications, whether they are fashion, cookie-baking, investment analysis, or artillery fire control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that in general, math courses don&#8217;t put enough emphasis on applications. The ones that are used often seem very contrived; I suspect this is partly because the people writing the textbooks have limited exposure to real-world math.</p>
<p>Yet 90% of people will learn something more readily if they are given some idea of what it can be used for. So, bring on the applications, whether they are fashion, cookie-baking, investment analysis, or artillery fire control.</p>
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