Comments on: Class consciousness

By: aha! Process, Inc.

aha! Process, Inc. — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:12:58 +0000

Hello Joanne,
We noticed your thoughtful dialog on Ruby Payne and the article about her in The New York Times. We have linked your blog to ours. Stop by sometime and join our discussion!

By: Class-Consciousness in America

Class-Consciousness in America — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:32:33 +0000

[...] Joanne Jacobs’ blog features “free linking and thinking on education,” and her piece about Ruby Payne has drawn 15 responses (at the time of this writing) since June 10, when it was posted. [...]

By: Erin

Erin — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:10:50 +0000

As a middle aged women from middle America who completed a Master’s Degree in Special Education late in life, I found Ms. Payne’s philosophy on point with my students in Chicago. Would I pay for her workshop? No. Knowing that parents who live within the economic definition of poverty practice corporal punishment, and that students who live in poverty need a personal relationship in order to succeed in school and also that students who live in poverty live in chaotic environments helps me relate to my students rather than judge them. I can only tell the public that I adore my students. Their parents cannot believe that this old lady is thrilled to have their child as her student (old ladies get away with lots of love). Anyway to help me connect with my students is welcome. Reaching them anyway I can is my goal. It might not work with every student but it gives me the option of being aware of their needs. If the poverty “issue” does not help me connect, I move on and try another route.

Thank you Ms. Payne.
from a teacher in Chicago

By: Overeducated

Overeducated — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:24:49 +0000

There are rare academics who are able to reach the broad public with what might be termed ‘popularization’ of academic thought. (If popular means talking to the the populace, that’s a good thing.) These individuals sometimes hit a public nerve and achieve celebrity and even wealth, breaking a class rule of academe, “thou shalt not strut thyself in the marketplace amongst the common trades.” Professional jealousy and intellectually pecking rivals into submission is a popular pastime of professors, browse the Chronicle of Higher Education or troll the AAUP censure list and see. This only comes as a suprise to non-academics who have no acquaintance with the higher education biz.

By: Twill00

Twill00 — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:50:56 +0000

Wow, great point, Andrew H.

Someone ought to put together a flowchart for kids that demonstrates, if you follow *this* set of values, here are the likely effects. If you follow *this* set of values, here are the likely results. And so on.

Maybe put together a board game that shows how your life might go, based upon your choices.

By: Andrew H.

Andrew H. — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 01:09:09 +0000

I don’t care much for white middle-class values.
What about middle 20th century Asian immigrant values?

By: Blogging Ruby Payne « Education and Class

Blogging Ruby Payne « Education and Class — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:58:33 +0000

[...] resorting to “refute by suggesting insidious motives” are commenters on Joanne Jacobs’ blog. Jacobs herself dismisses critics of Payne as being “mad” (as if they were having a [...]

By: Robert Wright

Robert Wright — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:34:44 +0000

This is a fascinating topic and the posts here are excellent.

Just wanted to say thanks.

By: allen

allen — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:30:25 +0000

Don’t be quite so quick to judge, ucladavid.

The parental bell curve means that there are some parents at one end who’ll steamroll over any obstacle to getting their kid a good education. At the other end you’ve got people whose parenting instincts are much less apparent. In between you’ve got a lot of parents who’d make a choice for their kids if only they could. But with a public education system that’s inherently unresponsive and at the mercy of political forces which have their own agenda that choice is often, usually, not possible.

What do you think is propelling the school choice and home schooling movements?

By: ucladavid

ucladavid — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 00:55:40 +0000

Any poor kid can do well in school if the parents teach that an education is important and back that up by making sure that their kid behaves and does the work.

I have just finished my 4th year of teaching and I have taught the honors kids down to the sheltered kids. Yes I come from a middle class background. All kids could pass my class and any of their other classes, but many of these kids CHOOSE not to do the work for a variety of reasons. When I call home and tell the parents that their kid is failing or misbehaving, but the kid’s behavior or work doesn’t change, it is bad parenting and not money.

True, many of these kids come from a single parent home and the parents have to work long hours, but those are just excuses. I came from a single parent household and no one was home when I got home. However, if I didn’t have my homework done when my mom got home, my mom was not too pleased. If I came home with bad grades, my mom was not too pleased and I got punished for that.

Thus, money is just an excuse and it is a case of bad parenting.