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	<title>Comments on: Reading War II</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/03/reading-war-ii/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: Cooking the numbers at Joanne Jacobs</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/03/reading-war-ii/#comment-32079</link>
		<dc:creator>Cooking the numbers at Joanne Jacobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 10:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/03/10/reading-war-ii/#comment-32079</guid>
		<description>[...] the huge rise in scores statewide was not confirmed by federal scores, which remained flat. (See Reading Wars II for more.) I found a graph comparing Madison to five similar districts in Wisconsin, all of which [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the huge rise in scores statewide was not confirmed by federal scores, which remained flat. (See Reading Wars II for more.) I found a graph comparing Madison to five similar districts in Wisconsin, all of which [...]</p>
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		<title>By: When reading experts attack at Joanne Jacobs</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/03/reading-war-ii/#comment-32078</link>
		<dc:creator>When reading experts attack at Joanne Jacobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/03/10/reading-war-ii/#comment-32078</guid>
		<description>[...] Reading War II is still raging as reading experts attack a New York Times story on Madison&#8217;s decision to reject federal Reading First funds in order to continue a reading program that the Times claims is effective. Education News prints as-yet unpublished letters to the Times from Reid Lyons, Robert Sweet, Louisa Moats, Linnea Ehri and Joanna Williams, Timothy Shanahan and Mark Seidenberg. Professor Moats, formerly co-investigator of the NICHD Early Interventions Project, a five-year, federally funded study of reading instruction in high-poverty schools, points out that &#8220;the General Accounting Office recently gave the Reading First program its highest (and unusual) rating of effectiveness.&#8221;  . . . there is overwhelming scientific consensus that comprehensive reading instruction, as required by Reading First, should include the components named in the legislation, including (but not limited to) phonics. Like the issue of global warming, there is no scientific debate about whether children benefit from direct instruction in how the alphabetic code of English represents speech. There is, in contrast, plenty of evidence that teaching children to guess at words through context and pictures is, indeed, malpractice, and that most poor readers fall by the wayside early because no one is teaching them how to read. Richard Allington, who was quoted in opposition to Reading First, has no credentials as a researcher or scientist. He and the &#8220;reading community&#8221; to which he refers have perpetuated myths and ineffective practices associated with Whole Language for decades â€“ and look at what those have brought us. Contrary to the article&#8217;s data, in a search of Madison&#8217;s reading achievement scores we find that 45% of African-American children in that city are not proficient readers. After all, they were eligible for Reading First! [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Reading War II is still raging as reading experts attack a New York Times story on Madison&#8217;s decision to reject federal Reading First funds in order to continue a reading program that the Times claims is effective. Education News prints as-yet unpublished letters to the Times from Reid Lyons, Robert Sweet, Louisa Moats, Linnea Ehri and Joanna Williams, Timothy Shanahan and Mark Seidenberg. Professor Moats, formerly co-investigator of the NICHD Early Interventions Project, a five-year, federally funded study of reading instruction in high-poverty schools, points out that &#8220;the General Accounting Office recently gave the Reading First program its highest (and unusual) rating of effectiveness.&#8221;  . . . there is overwhelming scientific consensus that comprehensive reading instruction, as required by Reading First, should include the components named in the legislation, including (but not limited to) phonics. Like the issue of global warming, there is no scientific debate about whether children benefit from direct instruction in how the alphabetic code of English represents speech. There is, in contrast, plenty of evidence that teaching children to guess at words through context and pictures is, indeed, malpractice, and that most poor readers fall by the wayside early because no one is teaching them how to read. Richard Allington, who was quoted in opposition to Reading First, has no credentials as a researcher or scientist. He and the &#8220;reading community&#8221; to which he refers have perpetuated myths and ineffective practices associated with Whole Language for decades â€“ and look at what those have brought us. Contrary to the article&#8217;s data, in a search of Madison&#8217;s reading achievement scores we find that 45% of African-American children in that city are not proficient readers. After all, they were eligible for Reading First! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: KDeRosa</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/03/reading-war-ii/#comment-32077</link>
		<dc:creator>KDeRosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/03/10/reading-war-ii/#comment-32077</guid>
		<description>Larry, there is a place for this kind of indirect instruction even in the most explicit of explicit instruction pedagogies.  They are good supplemental/enriching activities.  What they should not be is the main focus of the pedagogy. A scope and sequence of explicit instruction should be the foundation of the course.  The indirect instruction portions need to be fit into this framework, not the other way around.   The cart needs to go behind the horse.  I think these statements are in  agreement with what you described as your actual teaching practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry, there is a place for this kind of indirect instruction even in the most explicit of explicit instruction pedagogies.  They are good supplemental/enriching activities.  What they should not be is the main focus of the pedagogy. A scope and sequence of explicit instruction should be the foundation of the course.  The indirect instruction portions need to be fit into this framework, not the other way around.   The cart needs to go behind the horse.  I think these statements are in  agreement with what you described as your actual teaching practice.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Strauss</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/03/reading-war-ii/#comment-32076</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Strauss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/03/10/reading-war-ii/#comment-32076</guid>
		<description>Yes, I wasn&#039;t tryint to take your statement out of context; nor did what I said about it suggest otherwise. While I&#039;ve never tried to measure it in my classroom, probably more than 80% of the instruction I deliver is quite direct, more so than I would like, in fact.

I teach a college-level course to innercity juniors and seniors.
The two greatest challenges are to teach them how to really write; I don&#039;t mean to carry out some forumla for sentence structure or paragraph formation. I mean to have a strong voice and the ability to structure a compelling argument or analysis and to compose clear and articulate sentences. Modeling deep reading and analysis and structure and sentence construction -- all very direct approaches -- are essential, of course, but I&#039;ve got to balance that with just throwing them into the water, so to speak, and having them splash around a bit and try to figure out how to swim.

The same is true for interpreting literature -- esepcially poetry.
There is a lot of knowledge they need to know and I agree that students are unlikely to &quot;discover&quot; most of it on their own. But sometimes it is very effective to simply toss a poem at them and see what they come up with, together perhaps, and for them to recognize their power as thinkers.

I appreciate the article-link and will give it a more careful reading when I have time. I understand the logic of these arguments -- in the article and those you have made -- and probably agree with most of them most of the time. But I&#039;m wary of absolutes. I don&#039;t know that I support any of the &quot;claims&quot; made with &quot;respect to the efficacy of guided discovery.&quot; But I have seen sleeping students awakened and even inspired by really good teachers using that and other indirect methods of instruction.

Teaching is an art and a science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I wasn&#8217;t tryint to take your statement out of context; nor did what I said about it suggest otherwise. While I&#8217;ve never tried to measure it in my classroom, probably more than 80% of the instruction I deliver is quite direct, more so than I would like, in fact.</p>
<p>I teach a college-level course to innercity juniors and seniors.<br />
The two greatest challenges are to teach them how to really write; I don&#8217;t mean to carry out some forumla for sentence structure or paragraph formation. I mean to have a strong voice and the ability to structure a compelling argument or analysis and to compose clear and articulate sentences. Modeling deep reading and analysis and structure and sentence construction &#8212; all very direct approaches &#8212; are essential, of course, but I&#8217;ve got to balance that with just throwing them into the water, so to speak, and having them splash around a bit and try to figure out how to swim.</p>
<p>The same is true for interpreting literature &#8212; esepcially poetry.<br />
There is a lot of knowledge they need to know and I agree that students are unlikely to &#8220;discover&#8221; most of it on their own. But sometimes it is very effective to simply toss a poem at them and see what they come up with, together perhaps, and for them to recognize their power as thinkers.</p>
<p>I appreciate the article-link and will give it a more careful reading when I have time. I understand the logic of these arguments &#8212; in the article and those you have made &#8212; and probably agree with most of them most of the time. But I&#8217;m wary of absolutes. I don&#8217;t know that I support any of the &#8220;claims&#8221; made with &#8220;respect to the efficacy of guided discovery.&#8221; But I have seen sleeping students awakened and even inspired by really good teachers using that and other indirect methods of instruction.</p>
<p>Teaching is an art and a science.</p>
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		<title>By: KDeRosa</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/03/reading-war-ii/#comment-32075</link>
		<dc:creator>KDeRosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/03/10/reading-war-ii/#comment-32075</guid>
		<description>Larry, what I said was &quot;confers no benefits over explicit instruction.&quot;  So to the extent that guided discovery conferred benefits (and it did) those benefits were equalled or exceeded by more explicit forms of instruction.  Many claims are made with respect to the efficacy of guided discovery, but the reaity is that these supposed benefits don&#039;t materialize in subsequent assessment.

Here&#039;s a good article, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cogtech.usc.edu/publications/kirschner_Sweller_Clark.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why Minimal Guidance During Instruction Does Not
Work: An Analysis of the Failure of Constructivist,Discovery, Problem-Based, Experiential, and Inquiry-Based Teaching&lt;/a&gt;, from Educational Pyschologist summarizing the research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry, what I said was &#8220;confers no benefits over explicit instruction.&#8221;  So to the extent that guided discovery conferred benefits (and it did) those benefits were equalled or exceeded by more explicit forms of instruction.  Many claims are made with respect to the efficacy of guided discovery, but the reaity is that these supposed benefits don&#8217;t materialize in subsequent assessment.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a good article, <a href="http://www.cogtech.usc.edu/publications/kirschner_Sweller_Clark.pdf" rel="nofollow">Why Minimal Guidance During Instruction Does Not<br />
Work: An Analysis of the Failure of Constructivist,Discovery, Problem-Based, Experiential, and Inquiry-Based Teaching</a>, from Educational Pyschologist summarizing the research.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Strauss</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/03/reading-war-ii/#comment-32074</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Strauss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2007 05:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/03/10/reading-war-ii/#comment-32074</guid>
		<description>KDeRosa--

-----Guided discovery is merely inefficient, confers no benefits over explicit instruction, and can impede the leqarning of kids weak in cognitive capacity and background knowledge.

Confers no benefit?

That&#039;s a rather far-reaching claim. I often admonish my students -- in a sometimes very explicit manner -- to be extremely careful about claiming absolutes since even a single contrary example is siffucient to disprove such claims.

How large is the research sample on which your claim is made?

I don&#039;t recall anyone doing such a study in my classroom....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KDeRosa&#8211;</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8211;Guided discovery is merely inefficient, confers no benefits over explicit instruction, and can impede the leqarning of kids weak in cognitive capacity and background knowledge.</p>
<p>Confers no benefit?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a rather far-reaching claim. I often admonish my students &#8212; in a sometimes very explicit manner &#8212; to be extremely careful about claiming absolutes since even a single contrary example is siffucient to disprove such claims.</p>
<p>How large is the research sample on which your claim is made?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t recall anyone doing such a study in my classroom&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Lorraine Gerhart</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/03/reading-war-ii/#comment-32073</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorraine Gerhart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2007 03:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/03/10/reading-war-ii/#comment-32073</guid>
		<description>Let us not argue about technique and philosophy.  As teachers and educators, we need to be as informed as possible about all techniques.  Then as classroom gurus, we need to put it together and use multiple methods to reach all of our students.  We must be sensitive to the individual child so that we can adjust our instruction, reteach when necessary, and even try a different approach.

Early in my career, I wanted to find out which method of the current 13 at the time was the best.  I worked with groups of students using each method faithfully.  Guess what?  They all learned and progressed.  Of course, in teaching them, I adjusted for the individuals just as I always had, responded to individual needs, and varied enough to meet the individual need, and even re-taught where necessary.  That action research taught me a valuable lesson.  There is no one perfect tool, no one perfect method or philosophy, and children do not come in one massive block.  One size, no matter what it is, does not fit all.

Of course, we all need phonics and the method of getting that will vary.  We also need comprehension strategies, metacognition, background knowledge, preteaching of concepts,higher order thinking skills,  study skills, and let us not forget independent reading for the sheer joy of reading and thinking.  If we can instill a love of learning and reading, as well as giving students the tools to read, we will have provided a lifelong gift.

Just as we think differently, we learn to read differently, and as knowledgeable teachers, let us work with that knowledge and teach our students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let us not argue about technique and philosophy.  As teachers and educators, we need to be as informed as possible about all techniques.  Then as classroom gurus, we need to put it together and use multiple methods to reach all of our students.  We must be sensitive to the individual child so that we can adjust our instruction, reteach when necessary, and even try a different approach.</p>
<p>Early in my career, I wanted to find out which method of the current 13 at the time was the best.  I worked with groups of students using each method faithfully.  Guess what?  They all learned and progressed.  Of course, in teaching them, I adjusted for the individuals just as I always had, responded to individual needs, and varied enough to meet the individual need, and even re-taught where necessary.  That action research taught me a valuable lesson.  There is no one perfect tool, no one perfect method or philosophy, and children do not come in one massive block.  One size, no matter what it is, does not fit all.</p>
<p>Of course, we all need phonics and the method of getting that will vary.  We also need comprehension strategies, metacognition, background knowledge, preteaching of concepts,higher order thinking skills,  study skills, and let us not forget independent reading for the sheer joy of reading and thinking.  If we can instill a love of learning and reading, as well as giving students the tools to read, we will have provided a lifelong gift.</p>
<p>Just as we think differently, we learn to read differently, and as knowledgeable teachers, let us work with that knowledge and teach our students.</p>
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		<title>By: SusanS</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/03/reading-war-ii/#comment-32072</link>
		<dc:creator>SusanS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/03/10/reading-war-ii/#comment-32072</guid>
		<description>Yeah, it was the mojo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it was the mojo.</p>
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		<title>By: wayne martin</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/03/reading-war-ii/#comment-32071</link>
		<dc:creator>wayne martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/03/10/reading-war-ii/#comment-32071</guid>
		<description>---
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17083398/site/newsweek/page/2/

4th-Grade Slump: Too Much Pressure on Kids?
In the pressure-cooker world of the nation&#039;s elementary schools, it&#039;s hard to be 9 years old.
By Peg Tyre and Karen Springen
Newsweek

Feb. 19, 2007 issue - Terri Bollinger, principal at the Ridge Central elementary school, has noticed a troubling trend. Her third graders are doing incredibly well. Most of them meet or exceed Illinois state reading standards. But her fifth graders aren&#039;t showing the same kind of improvementâ€”and in 2005, their reading scores even dropped a little. Bollinger thinks she knows why. For complicated reasons, some kids lose their mojo when they get to fourth grade.
---</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8212;<br />
<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17083398/site/newsweek/page/2/" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17083398/site/newsweek/page/2/</a></p>
<p>4th-Grade Slump: Too Much Pressure on Kids?<br />
In the pressure-cooker world of the nation&#8217;s elementary schools, it&#8217;s hard to be 9 years old.<br />
By Peg Tyre and Karen Springen<br />
Newsweek</p>
<p>Feb. 19, 2007 issue &#8211; Terri Bollinger, principal at the Ridge Central elementary school, has noticed a troubling trend. Her third graders are doing incredibly well. Most of them meet or exceed Illinois state reading standards. But her fifth graders aren&#8217;t showing the same kind of improvementâ€”and in 2005, their reading scores even dropped a little. Bollinger thinks she knows why. For complicated reasons, some kids lose their mojo when they get to fourth grade.<br />
&#8212;</p>
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		<title>By: SusanS</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/03/reading-war-ii/#comment-32070</link>
		<dc:creator>SusanS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/03/10/reading-war-ii/#comment-32070</guid>
		<description>Just so we&#039;re clear, Shaw was a genius.

The problem with ignoring phonics or just giving lip service to it is that the kids who read via whole language will often start to have problems with spelling later. Phonics is still needed down the road even if you have a gifted reader.

All of those little rules (and exceptions) that you had seared in your brain are not there for this crop of kids. This is probably part of the reasons behind what they call the &quot;fourth grade slump.&quot;

Encoding and decoding are two different things. Your child may be the type that &quot;plucks&quot; words out of the air early on, but later that visual recall may not be so helpful when they get into compound words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just so we&#8217;re clear, Shaw was a genius.</p>
<p>The problem with ignoring phonics or just giving lip service to it is that the kids who read via whole language will often start to have problems with spelling later. Phonics is still needed down the road even if you have a gifted reader.</p>
<p>All of those little rules (and exceptions) that you had seared in your brain are not there for this crop of kids. This is probably part of the reasons behind what they call the &#8220;fourth grade slump.&#8221;</p>
<p>Encoding and decoding are two different things. Your child may be the type that &#8220;plucks&#8221; words out of the air early on, but later that visual recall may not be so helpful when they get into compound words.</p>
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