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	<title>Comments on: Color-coded pep talks</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/color-coded-pep-talks/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: Indigo Warrior</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31775</link>
		<dc:creator>Indigo Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/28/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31775</guid>
		<description>Why can&#039;t kids just be themselves rather than self-destructive tribal robots?

One non-solution I can think of would be to segregate children from their tribes and force them to live by and for themselves.   But that would be cruel and evil, so I won&#039;t propose it.

Also, high-sounding government attempts to &quot;close the gaps&quot; are failing precisely because such attempts are from outside.  The &quot;unsuccessful&quot; tribes such as blacks and hispanics resent such intrusions even if for their own good.  I think it would be better just to leave them alone, and let them - or rather their most forward-thinking individuals - see the light on their own.  After all, the more successful tribes have done that - whites, Asians, Jews and other non-Muslim middle easterners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why can&#8217;t kids just be themselves rather than self-destructive tribal robots?</p>
<p>One non-solution I can think of would be to segregate children from their tribes and force them to live by and for themselves.   But that would be cruel and evil, so I won&#8217;t propose it.</p>
<p>Also, high-sounding government attempts to &#8220;close the gaps&#8221; are failing precisely because such attempts are from outside.  The &#8220;unsuccessful&#8221; tribes such as blacks and hispanics resent such intrusions even if for their own good.  I think it would be better just to leave them alone, and let them &#8211; or rather their most forward-thinking individuals &#8211; see the light on their own.  After all, the more successful tribes have done that &#8211; whites, Asians, Jews and other non-Muslim middle easterners.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31774</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/28/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31774</guid>
		<description>This is just setting them up for racially seperated graduation ceremonies, after which they will attend universities with segregated orientation days that prepare them for life in segregated dormitories where they will interact with fellow students who are members of segregated student associations. They will then graduate in segregated ceremonies and join professions with segregated professional associations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is just setting them up for racially seperated graduation ceremonies, after which they will attend universities with segregated orientation days that prepare them for life in segregated dormitories where they will interact with fellow students who are members of segregated student associations. They will then graduate in segregated ceremonies and join professions with segregated professional associations.</p>
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		<title>By: GradSchoolMom</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31773</link>
		<dc:creator>GradSchoolMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 11:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/28/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31773</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m actually saying the opposite, JoeH. I believe to fix a problem that has been identified as a Black and Hispanic issue, we need to find a Black and Hispanic solution. I just can&#039;t imagine how to do that without using stereotypes. Either race has to be taken out of the low achievement problem or it has to become part of the solution. Since pretending it doesn&#039;t exist has not helped in the past, maybe it is time to realize that we are not all the same. I give the principal in the article credit for trying something new. Reading the reactions to the story shows why most educators are too afraid to search for a solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m actually saying the opposite, JoeH. I believe to fix a problem that has been identified as a Black and Hispanic issue, we need to find a Black and Hispanic solution. I just can&#8217;t imagine how to do that without using stereotypes. Either race has to be taken out of the low achievement problem or it has to become part of the solution. Since pretending it doesn&#8217;t exist has not helped in the past, maybe it is time to realize that we are not all the same. I give the principal in the article credit for trying something new. Reading the reactions to the story shows why most educators are too afraid to search for a solution.</p>
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		<title>By: JoeH</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31772</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 06:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/28/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31772</guid>
		<description>To Gradschool Mom: Short answer no, your are searching for a the causes of certain performances so you can apply corrective action.  Not to all but to those who under perform.

Moreover, if I understand you correctly, you are saying lets just ignore the problem.  We know there is a great hue and cry that minorities are not proportionally represented at higher levels of education and in the job market.  It seems to me that the root cause of this disparity is our primary, secondary and h.s. education system.  I can tell you the performance levels of various ethnic groups in all of suburban Cook County(thatâ€™s suburban Chicago) high schools, mirrors that of the stats I posted above.  All of this leads to under representation on down the road.

The hard part is comming up with solutions. In today&#039;s political climate and super-sensitivity  to racial matters, it is like walking on egg shells.  The easy solution, just throw more money at the schools certainly hasn&#039;t narrowed the gap.  If and until we are totally honest about the problem, it will on fester and more than likely get worse.  

But identifying a problem is not stereotyping. 

Just returned from a school board meeting so I am not making to much sense and will let this go for now.  This is redundant but I will say it again, ignoring the problem will not make it go away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Gradschool Mom: Short answer no, your are searching for a the causes of certain performances so you can apply corrective action.  Not to all but to those who under perform.</p>
<p>Moreover, if I understand you correctly, you are saying lets just ignore the problem.  We know there is a great hue and cry that minorities are not proportionally represented at higher levels of education and in the job market.  It seems to me that the root cause of this disparity is our primary, secondary and h.s. education system.  I can tell you the performance levels of various ethnic groups in all of suburban Cook County(thatâ€™s suburban Chicago) high schools, mirrors that of the stats I posted above.  All of this leads to under representation on down the road.</p>
<p>The hard part is comming up with solutions. In today&#8217;s political climate and super-sensitivity  to racial matters, it is like walking on egg shells.  The easy solution, just throw more money at the schools certainly hasn&#8217;t narrowed the gap.  If and until we are totally honest about the problem, it will on fester and more than likely get worse.  </p>
<p>But identifying a problem is not stereotyping. </p>
<p>Just returned from a school board meeting so I am not making to much sense and will let this go for now.  This is redundant but I will say it again, ignoring the problem will not make it go away.</p>
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		<title>By: eddy</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31771</link>
		<dc:creator>eddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 03:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/28/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31771</guid>
		<description>GradSchoolMom --

Who says stereotyping is bad?

Stereotyping is at the heart of the &quot;diversity&quot; philosophy.  &quot;Diversity&quot; presumes fundamental but beneficient differences between racial groups.  Every single member of a given racial group is presumed to possess that fundamental difference.  There are no follow-up questions of a black applicant to assure that they &quot;think black&quot; as well.  No need to worry that a woman doesn&#039;t &quot;think like a woman&quot;.

The presumption is that Kanye West and Justice Clarence Thomas think one way, and rapper Eminmem and Rush Limbaugh think a different way.  While there have been accusations that Clarence Thomas &quot;isn&#039;t black enough&quot;, I can&#039;t recall any charges that Eminmem &quot;isn&#039;t white enough&quot;.

In summary, it is not impermissable to stereotype if it is being done by the left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GradSchoolMom &#8211;</p>
<p>Who says stereotyping is bad?</p>
<p>Stereotyping is at the heart of the &#8220;diversity&#8221; philosophy.  &#8220;Diversity&#8221; presumes fundamental but beneficient differences between racial groups.  Every single member of a given racial group is presumed to possess that fundamental difference.  There are no follow-up questions of a black applicant to assure that they &#8220;think black&#8221; as well.  No need to worry that a woman doesn&#8217;t &#8220;think like a woman&#8221;.</p>
<p>The presumption is that Kanye West and Justice Clarence Thomas think one way, and rapper Eminmem and Rush Limbaugh think a different way.  While there have been accusations that Clarence Thomas &#8220;isn&#8217;t black enough&#8221;, I can&#8217;t recall any charges that Eminmem &#8220;isn&#8217;t white enough&#8221;.</p>
<p>In summary, it is not impermissable to stereotype if it is being done by the left.</p>
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		<title>By: GradSchoolMom</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31770</link>
		<dc:creator>GradSchoolMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/28/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31770</guid>
		<description>So now that NCLB has shown that blacks and Hispanics are failing in unequal proportions to whites and Asians, how can we ever correct the problem without stereotyping? Don&#039;t we find ourselves in the position of having to find out how blacks and Hispanics learn and what motivates them? As soon an we are looking for the answer to the question of how some particular group acts, aren&#039;t we stereotyping?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So now that NCLB has shown that blacks and Hispanics are failing in unequal proportions to whites and Asians, how can we ever correct the problem without stereotyping? Don&#8217;t we find ourselves in the position of having to find out how blacks and Hispanics learn and what motivates them? As soon an we are looking for the answer to the question of how some particular group acts, aren&#8217;t we stereotyping?</p>
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		<title>By: JoeH</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31769</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/28/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31769</guid>
		<description>To GradschoolMom:  In answer to your question, because many schools will be able to &quot;paper over&quot; problems.  For example  our local K-8 school district which has about a 20% minority population (7th and 8th grades), Black and Hispanic.  When looking at the achievement of the entire population of this cohort, we see that 88% of the student body is at or exceeding performance expectations.  When you parse the data you find out that almost 50% of the minority students are below standard or in the academic warning classification.  There is now considerable pressure on the local school board and administrators to take action to close the &quot;gap&quot;.

Without this ethnic/racial parsing, the problem would never have become public knowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To GradschoolMom:  In answer to your question, because many schools will be able to &#8220;paper over&#8221; problems.  For example  our local K-8 school district which has about a 20% minority population (7th and 8th grades), Black and Hispanic.  When looking at the achievement of the entire population of this cohort, we see that 88% of the student body is at or exceeding performance expectations.  When you parse the data you find out that almost 50% of the minority students are below standard or in the academic warning classification.  There is now considerable pressure on the local school board and administrators to take action to close the &#8220;gap&#8221;.</p>
<p>Without this ethnic/racial parsing, the problem would never have become public knowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: GradSchoolMom</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31768</link>
		<dc:creator>GradSchoolMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 12:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/28/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31768</guid>
		<description>Why isn&#039;t there pressure for NCLB to not divide scores by race?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why isn&#8217;t there pressure for NCLB to not divide scores by race?</p>
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		<title>By: eddy</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31767</link>
		<dc:creator>eddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 05:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/28/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31767</guid>
		<description>The real scofflow in this story is not the principal whose only error was in seriously taking this message to heart:

&quot;Close that gap!&quot;

&quot;Close that gap!&quot;

Isn&#039;t the proper moral indictment best leveled against those who confuse educational equality with equal group results? One can&#039;t seriously &quot;close the gap&quot; without exercising some form of disparate treatment or beneficient segregation.

If this is the cure, I&#039;ll take the disease!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real scofflow in this story is not the principal whose only error was in seriously taking this message to heart:</p>
<p>&#8220;Close that gap!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Close that gap!&#8221;</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t the proper moral indictment best leveled against those who confuse educational equality with equal group results? One can&#8217;t seriously &#8220;close the gap&#8221; without exercising some form of disparate treatment or beneficient segregation.</p>
<p>If this is the cure, I&#8217;ll take the disease!</p>
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		<title>By: Discriminations</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31766</link>
		<dc:creator>Discriminations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 04:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/28/color-coded-pep-talks/#comment-31766</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Race-Based Test Pep...&lt;/strong&gt;

Reader Nels Nelson points me to something to a remarkable post from Joanne Jacobs that I should have seen by now on my own (but hadnâ€™t), a California high school that segregated its students for separate, color-coded pre-testing pep talks.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Race-Based Test Pep&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Reader Nels Nelson points me to something to a remarkable post from Joanne Jacobs that I should have seen by now on my own (but hadnâ€™t), a California high school that segregated its students for separate, color-coded pre-testing pep talks&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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