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	<title>Comments on: Bad teachers he has known</title>
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	<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/bad-teachers-he-has-known/</link>
	<description>Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs</description>
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		<title>By: Carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31691</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/25/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31691</guid>
		<description>How would you like to have worked for a school system for 5 years as a paraprofessional as you earned you way in as teacher completing a Master of Art Degree in Education - and get asked for your resignation. Tomorrow.

I had never been brought on the carpet, or anything. I realize that when this decision making process was taking place I was called out by my Assistant Principal becuase our Principal said the substitute in our class (and she was another asst principal niece and the schools bookkeeper daughter) said I was observing her.

Well I feel totaly guilty and react by working even more perfectly and letting my admin know I had my ID on and introduced who I was. I even went so far as to act a student if my behavior had been out of line that day - he said no = she just didn&#039;t know who you were. I am a special ed collaborative teacher so with the lead teacher out and me knowing the lesson plan..instead of having them do worksheets as the other classes did - we worked on a real assignment. This was of course fine with the teacher. She had just had a son get sick and didn&#039;t have a back up plan so they were doing worksheets with the sub.

What makes my story worse (or better depending on how you wish to look at it) is my assistant superintendent and dept head signed off on all my work which was required and is a great TEacher work sample per title II schools. My supervisor refused to come to my evaluation by the asst super and basically ignored my entire design.

Now I have to decide to use it or not. 
#1 I am a great teacher and my students are all passing all content and elective courses (they do it all - but I am beat :o)
#2 I have resigned afther our little meeting and would really like to get out of the school.
#3 My work ethics are great. I will listen to my evaluation with respect - but I really don&#039;t want to sign it if it is inaccurate. If they say &quot;she came in 4 minutes late everyday) I would fight it down to 1 day - because that is accurate. But also whenever I was late, my classes were never affected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How would you like to have worked for a school system for 5 years as a paraprofessional as you earned you way in as teacher completing a Master of Art Degree in Education &#8211; and get asked for your resignation. Tomorrow.</p>
<p>I had never been brought on the carpet, or anything. I realize that when this decision making process was taking place I was called out by my Assistant Principal becuase our Principal said the substitute in our class (and she was another asst principal niece and the schools bookkeeper daughter) said I was observing her.</p>
<p>Well I feel totaly guilty and react by working even more perfectly and letting my admin know I had my ID on and introduced who I was. I even went so far as to act a student if my behavior had been out of line that day &#8211; he said no = she just didn&#8217;t know who you were. I am a special ed collaborative teacher so with the lead teacher out and me knowing the lesson plan..instead of having them do worksheets as the other classes did &#8211; we worked on a real assignment. This was of course fine with the teacher. She had just had a son get sick and didn&#8217;t have a back up plan so they were doing worksheets with the sub.</p>
<p>What makes my story worse (or better depending on how you wish to look at it) is my assistant superintendent and dept head signed off on all my work which was required and is a great TEacher work sample per title II schools. My supervisor refused to come to my evaluation by the asst super and basically ignored my entire design.</p>
<p>Now I have to decide to use it or not.<br />
#1 I am a great teacher and my students are all passing all content and elective courses (they do it all &#8211; but I am beat <img src='http://www.joannejacobs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' /> )<br />
#2 I have resigned afther our little meeting and would really like to get out of the school.<br />
#3 My work ethics are great. I will listen to my evaluation with respect &#8211; but I really don&#8217;t want to sign it if it is inaccurate. If they say &#8220;she came in 4 minutes late everyday) I would fight it down to 1 day &#8211; because that is accurate. But also whenever I was late, my classes were never affected.</p>
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		<title>By: Indigo Warrior</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31690</link>
		<dc:creator>Indigo Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 18:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/25/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31690</guid>
		<description>My best idea is that bad teachers and related problems come from the nature of the government (public) educational system.  Massive reforms are needed, and whether public schools are even redeemable is an open question.  I am usually quite a libertarian on these issues.

There needs to be more market freedoms in education, both within and without the public system.  Constructive competition - where parents and students can pick and choose according to their own criteria, and find something that suits them, and reject what they see as bad.

Schooling as it exists right now is a creaking anachronism of barbaric traditions glued together by &quot;progressive&quot; reforms.  Its origin was in the early 19th century and its basis is intentional but unconscious sadism from the child-rearing practices of that time.  Stamp the teachers into obedience, and let them stamp the kids into obedience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My best idea is that bad teachers and related problems come from the nature of the government (public) educational system.  Massive reforms are needed, and whether public schools are even redeemable is an open question.  I am usually quite a libertarian on these issues.</p>
<p>There needs to be more market freedoms in education, both within and without the public system.  Constructive competition &#8211; where parents and students can pick and choose according to their own criteria, and find something that suits them, and reject what they see as bad.</p>
<p>Schooling as it exists right now is a creaking anachronism of barbaric traditions glued together by &#8220;progressive&#8221; reforms.  Its origin was in the early 19th century and its basis is intentional but unconscious sadism from the child-rearing practices of that time.  Stamp the teachers into obedience, and let them stamp the kids into obedience.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Strauss</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31689</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Strauss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 04:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/25/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31689</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a sad story, Markm.

Indigo Warrior, that&#039;s a good assessment of the problem. I trust myself to do right and only take action against the really bad teachers and I, of course, think I&#039;m fair and objective in making such judgments. I don&#039;t have the same faith in everyone else.

Over the years I&#039;ve had a few complaints made against me -- by colleagues and school office staff and once by a guest from the Sierra Club. My critics were not always accurate (in my opinion) and were, I think, prone to exaggerations. 

Perhaps a more profound problem with weeding out the bad teachers is that wherever there is a teacher shortage -- as there is in South LA where I teach -- administrators aren&#039;t going to be anxious to terminate anyone for any reason.

Anyone have any ideas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a sad story, Markm.</p>
<p>Indigo Warrior, that&#8217;s a good assessment of the problem. I trust myself to do right and only take action against the really bad teachers and I, of course, think I&#8217;m fair and objective in making such judgments. I don&#8217;t have the same faith in everyone else.</p>
<p>Over the years I&#8217;ve had a few complaints made against me &#8212; by colleagues and school office staff and once by a guest from the Sierra Club. My critics were not always accurate (in my opinion) and were, I think, prone to exaggerations. </p>
<p>Perhaps a more profound problem with weeding out the bad teachers is that wherever there is a teacher shortage &#8212; as there is in South LA where I teach &#8212; administrators aren&#8217;t going to be anxious to terminate anyone for any reason.</p>
<p>Anyone have any ideas?</p>
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		<title>By: markm</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31688</link>
		<dc:creator>markm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 02:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/25/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31688</guid>
		<description>&quot;When parents complained, what were they told?&quot; NDC, I don&#039;t know what, if any, response the school system gave my parents when they complained. However, I know this guy had been doing the same thing for 20 years, because they found people their age that told the same stories about him from when they were in school, and I know he continued the same way for at least 10 more years because my little sisters had to go to the same school. 

So as far as I can tell, the school administration just waited for him to retire - for thirty years! Meanwhile, the three best teachers I had in three years at that Jr High were all gone 5 years later - one retired, one become the headmaster of an expensive private school, and one burned out and quit teaching entirely after just two or three years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When parents complained, what were they told?&#8221; NDC, I don&#8217;t know what, if any, response the school system gave my parents when they complained. However, I know this guy had been doing the same thing for 20 years, because they found people their age that told the same stories about him from when they were in school, and I know he continued the same way for at least 10 more years because my little sisters had to go to the same school. </p>
<p>So as far as I can tell, the school administration just waited for him to retire &#8211; for thirty years! Meanwhile, the three best teachers I had in three years at that Jr High were all gone 5 years later &#8211; one retired, one become the headmaster of an expensive private school, and one burned out and quit teaching entirely after just two or three years.</p>
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		<title>By: Indigo Warrior</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31687</link>
		<dc:creator>Indigo Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/25/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31687</guid>
		<description>I should have said this earlier.  There needs to be a means to teachers to (confidentially) report others in need of discipline, reassignment, or retirement.  I think we all agree.  But there is also the possibility of abuse; the good-but-unpopular teachers being at highest risk.  And there is also the case of &quot;bad craziness&quot; vs. &quot;good craziness&quot;.  The character played by Howard Hesseman in &quot;Head of the Class&quot; is an example of the latter.  It&#039;s a dilemma that I have little confidence in the filled with prejudice and envy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have said this earlier.  There needs to be a means to teachers to (confidentially) report others in need of discipline, reassignment, or retirement.  I think we all agree.  But there is also the possibility of abuse; the good-but-unpopular teachers being at highest risk.  And there is also the case of &#8220;bad craziness&#8221; vs. &#8220;good craziness&#8221;.  The character played by Howard Hesseman in &#8220;Head of the Class&#8221; is an example of the latter.  It&#8217;s a dilemma that I have little confidence in the filled with prejudice and envy.</p>
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		<title>By: Indigo Warrior</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31686</link>
		<dc:creator>Indigo Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/25/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31686</guid>
		<description>Congratulations, Larry.  You did well.

Unfortunately, I was never in a position to &quot;remove&quot; teachers, most notably my own.  I am not a parent either, so I don&#039;t have kids to look out for.  Some of my relatives are/were teachers, and can relate to stories such as these.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations, Larry.  You did well.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I was never in a position to &#8220;remove&#8221; teachers, most notably my own.  I am not a parent either, so I don&#8217;t have kids to look out for.  Some of my relatives are/were teachers, and can relate to stories such as these.</p>
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		<title>By: ben</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31685</link>
		<dc:creator>ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/25/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31685</guid>
		<description>It seemed like a lot of the examples had to with immigrants and language issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seemed like a lot of the examples had to with immigrants and language issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Walter E. Wallis</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31684</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter E. Wallis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/25/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31684</guid>
		<description>My last union, the IBEW, maintains standards of competence. But then, that&#039;s just construction workers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My last union, the IBEW, maintains standards of competence. But then, that&#8217;s just construction workers.</p>
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		<title>By: NDC</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31683</link>
		<dc:creator>NDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/25/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31683</guid>
		<description>Larry, clearly you did the right thing.

Do you have a state level professional standards organization that you can report people to or is it just a school by school thing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry, clearly you did the right thing.</p>
<p>Do you have a state level professional standards organization that you can report people to or is it just a school by school thing?</p>
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		<title>By: Prof210</title>
		<link>http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/02/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31682</link>
		<dc:creator>Prof210</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/02/25/bad-teachers-he-has-known/#comment-31682</guid>
		<description>I read my &quot;rate my professor&quot; reviews and see that some students find my course to be a tremendous learning experience and others find it a complete waste to time.  Perhaps the same is true of the students in the classes of some of the teachers mentioned.  Rather than having some teachers &quot;report&quot; others on the basis of only cursory familiarity, how about just giving students even a &quot;one shot&quot; opportunity to change classes?  The &quot;worst&quot; (and hardest) teachers would get smaller classes and might even improve (or at least be highlighted as potential candidates for remediation).  And students would have a better shot at the best (or easiest).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read my &#8220;rate my professor&#8221; reviews and see that some students find my course to be a tremendous learning experience and others find it a complete waste to time.  Perhaps the same is true of the students in the classes of some of the teachers mentioned.  Rather than having some teachers &#8220;report&#8221; others on the basis of only cursory familiarity, how about just giving students even a &#8220;one shot&#8221; opportunity to change classes?  The &#8220;worst&#8221; (and hardest) teachers would get smaller classes and might even improve (or at least be highlighted as potential candidates for remediation).  And students would have a better shot at the best (or easiest).</p>
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