Comments on: Library lock-out http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/01/library-lock-out/ Thinking and Linking by Joanne Jacobs Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:37:54 +0000 hourly 1 By: Wayne Martin http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/01/library-lock-out/#comment-30399 Wayne Martin Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:24:29 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/2007/01/03/library-lock-out/#comment-30399 > All works after 1923 are protected as long as the best > Congress money can buy keeps raising the length of > protection every time the first Mickey Mouse > copyrights approach expiration. IIRC, copyright > ran for 28 years in the 1920’s. It’s since been raised > to 56 years, then 75, and now it’s 100 years. I fully > expect that the length will be extended again before 2023. The main problem Google/Books has run into in its digitizing project is that of copyright. Google says that while it wants to fully honor copyright law, it has found that it has proven impossible to locate a large number of copyright holders, making the project’s task even more difficult. Copyright holders may, or may not, have understood the value of their copyright, and may, or may not, have included their copyrights in their list of assets prior to their deaths. There is no central clearing house that keeps track of copyright holders, so in many ways, copyrights are a big mess for the “modern age”. In the case of Disney’s copyright extensions, Disney has a huge financial interest in their protect works and will doubtless be seeking to extend these protections as long as there is a market for these products. The last copyright extension did not go without a fight. Stanford law professor Lawrence Lessig (http://www.lessig.org/blog/) presented cogent arguments about restricting the length of these protections. Congress went with Disney, but with the next extension bringing the interval of protection to 100 years (presumably), it’s a toss whether Congress will go along. Hopefully, digitization of the world’s unprotected literature and protected intellectual property will give us some additional insight as to what make works better than our current system. One possibility would be to provide the primary author protection for a given period of time, with possibly one assignment of his/her copyright to a commercial entity. Works that demonstrate a longevity of commercial appeal (such as the Disney works) could be provided an extension. Perhaps an additional tax on the proceeds of such works (due to the extensions) might make sense. > All works after 1923 are protected as long as the best
> Congress money can buy keeps raising the length of
> protection every time the first Mickey Mouse
> copyrights approach expiration. IIRC, copyright
> ran for 28 years in the 1920’s. It’s since been raised
> to 56 years, then 75, and now it’s 100 years. I fully
> expect that the length will be extended again before 2023.

The main problem Google/Books has run into in its digitizing project is that of copyright. Google says that while it wants to fully honor copyright law, it has found that it has proven impossible to locate a large number of copyright holders, making the project’s task even more difficult. Copyright holders may, or may not, have understood the value of their copyright, and may, or may not, have included their copyrights in their list of assets prior to their deaths. There is no central clearing house that keeps track of copyright holders, so in many ways, copyrights are a big mess for the “modern age”.

In the case of Disney’s copyright extensions, Disney has a huge financial interest in their protect works and will doubtless be seeking to extend these protections as long as there is a market for these products. The last copyright extension did not go without a fight. Stanford law professor Lawrence Lessig (http://www.lessig.org/blog/) presented cogent arguments about restricting the length of these protections. Congress went with Disney, but with the next extension bringing the interval of protection to 100 years (presumably), it’s a toss whether Congress will go along.

Hopefully, digitization of the world’s unprotected literature and protected intellectual property will give us some additional insight as to what make works better than our current system. One possibility would be to provide the primary author protection for a given period of time, with possibly one assignment of his/her copyright to a commercial entity. Works that demonstrate a longevity of commercial appeal (such as the Disney works) could be provided an extension. Perhaps an additional tax on the proceeds of such works (due to the extensions) might make sense.

]]> By: markm http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/01/library-lock-out/#comment-30398 markm Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:19:52 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/2007/01/03/library-lock-out/#comment-30398 "Remember, that Copyright specifies a number of years that the work is protected, not that all works after 1923 are protected." All works after 1923 are protected as long as the best Congress money can buy keeps raising the length of protection every time the first Mickey Mouse copyrights approach expiration. IIRC, copyright ran for 28 years in the 1920's. It's since been raised to 56 years, then 75, and now it's 100 years. I fully expect that the length will be extended again before 2023. “Remember, that Copyright specifies a number of years that the work is protected, not that all works after 1923 are protected.” All works after 1923 are protected as long as the best Congress money can buy keeps raising the length of protection every time the first Mickey Mouse copyrights approach expiration. IIRC, copyright ran for 28 years in the 1920′s. It’s since been raised to 56 years, then 75, and now it’s 100 years. I fully expect that the length will be extended again before 2023.

]]> By: Julia K http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/01/library-lock-out/#comment-30397 Julia K Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:42:03 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/2007/01/03/library-lock-out/#comment-30397 I use the interlibrary loan program frequently. This program renders my small hometown library more than adequate for my needs. However, I am struck by how many commenters on this thread regard libraries as businesses. They are not. They are, at heart, a philanthropic institution whose real return comes in over decades, not quarterly. Much like (ahem) schools. There are not that many great books. 99% of everything is trash; why rush to throw out those few books which have survived the test of time? In the great, fancy libraries of the future, the Aeneid will be a special order item? This reflects the sinking literacy rate in the public at large. Grisham and King may be in demand because very few people have the ability to read more complex works. Such a long term trend doesn't bode well for libraries, and I see no reason why libraries should act to hasten their own demise. They should be taking steps to build a literate public who will be willing to support libraries as repositories of knowledge, rather than as purveyors of cut rate entertainment. I use the interlibrary loan program frequently. This program renders my small hometown library more than adequate for my needs. However, I am struck by how many commenters on this thread regard libraries as businesses. They are not. They are, at heart, a philanthropic institution whose real return comes in over decades, not quarterly. Much like (ahem) schools.

There are not that many great books. 99% of everything is trash; why rush to throw out those few books which have survived the test of time? In the great, fancy libraries of the future, the Aeneid will be a special order item?

This reflects the sinking literacy rate in the public at large. Grisham and King may be in demand because very few people have the ability to read more complex works. Such a long term trend doesn’t bode well for libraries, and I see no reason why libraries should act to hasten their own demise. They should be taking steps to build a literate public who will be willing to support libraries as repositories of knowledge, rather than as purveyors of cut rate entertainment.

]]> By: Twill00 http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/01/library-lock-out/#comment-30396 Twill00 Fri, 05 Jan 2007 02:31:03 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/2007/01/03/library-lock-out/#comment-30396 When you belong to a large system, the question is whether the book is available in the system, not on a shelf at a particular branch. Oh, darn, I have to wait three days for the book to come to my branch? Of course, if the book were at that branch but checked out, it could be weeks. When you belong to a large system, the question is whether the book is available in the system, not on a shelf at a particular branch. Oh, darn, I have to wait three days for the book to come to my branch? Of course, if the book were at that branch but checked out, it could be weeks.

]]> By: wayne martin http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/01/library-lock-out/#comment-30395 wayne martin Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:18:05 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/2007/01/03/library-lock-out/#comment-30395 I was in San Francisco recently, and decided to wander through the downtown library, which cost $109.5 million when built in 1993-95 ($200 M when interest on bonds is added in) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Public_Library). The building is impressive (as you might expect a $100M building to be). Wandering around the building, what impressed me the most was that there were no people using the facility (a Friday after noon during the Christmas season) other than homeless folks who seemed to be hunkered down at every Internet terminal. The bottom floor has a rather large area dedicated to PCs, and some VCRs with Video Monitors attached. The library offers WiFi, but there didn’t seem to many people with their own LapTops sitting at tables. There were some, but most seemed to be using the library’s fixed-station PCs. The VCRs all were busy with homeless, watching movies. There were very few people sitting at the many tables with a bunch of books open and clearly in use. I mentioned my observations to a friend of who runs a business in the SF, and got the following link about problems in the SF library back: Porn, Sex Crimes At Libraries: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=i_team&id=4808374 Crime in public libraries has become a very big problem in most cities, and even smaller cities are reporting similar problems, as the original posting in this thread so indicates. I was in San Francisco recently, and decided to wander through the downtown library, which cost $109.5 million when built in 1993-95 ($200 M when interest on bonds is added in) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Public_Library).

The building is impressive (as you might expect a $100M building to be). Wandering around the building, what impressed me the most was that there were no people using the facility (a Friday after noon during the Christmas season) other than homeless folks who seemed to be hunkered down at every Internet terminal. The bottom floor has a rather large area dedicated to PCs, and some VCRs with Video Monitors attached. The library offers WiFi, but there didn’t seem to many people with their own LapTops sitting at tables. There were some, but most seemed to be using the library’s fixed-station PCs. The VCRs all were busy with homeless, watching movies. There were very few people sitting at the many tables with a bunch of books open and clearly in use.

I mentioned my observations to a friend of who runs a business in the SF, and got the following link about problems in the SF library back:

Porn, Sex Crimes At Libraries:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=i_team&id=4808374

Crime in public libraries has become a very big problem in most cities, and even smaller cities are reporting similar problems, as the original posting in this thread so indicates.

]]> By: NYC Educator http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/01/library-lock-out/#comment-30394 NYC Educator Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:54:31 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/2007/01/03/library-lock-out/#comment-30394 Today's Times reports they're going to try hiring a couple of security guards rather than closing. Today’s Times reports they’re going to try hiring a couple of security guards rather than closing.

]]> By: wayne martin http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/01/library-lock-out/#comment-30393 wayne martin Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:02:43 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/2007/01/03/library-lock-out/#comment-30393 A Washington Post article claims that customers can't find various “classics” in some of the local libraries in Fairfax County, VA, such as: "Abraham Lincoln: His Speeches and Writings", "The Education of Henry Adams", or Emily Dickinson's "Final Harvest". The libraries have been using their library inventory software to keep track of “low circulators”, which they are removing from the shelves of some of their libraries. Well, these books can be obtained on-line at a couple of locations: The Writings Of Abraham Lincoln: http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC04731995&id=vq1LywH3-SkC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=Abraham Lincoln: His Speeches and Writings&as_brr=1 "The Education of Henry Adams": http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC70394769&id=qF8WAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=The Education of Henry Adams&as_brr=1#PPP12,M1 Emily Dickinson's "Final Harvest": (Purchase prices start at $0.78) http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0316184152/ref=dp_olp_2/104-5018890-4807947 The following list of books being culled seems to have emerged: Books on the Chopping Block in Fairfax The following books have been weeded from the shelves of various branches of the Fairfax County Public Library system or haven't been checked out in 24 months and could be discarded. In parentheses are the branches where the books are endangered. The same title might be available at another branch. The Works of Aristotle, Aristotle (Centreville) Sexual Politics, Kate Millett (Centreville) The Great Philosophers, Karl Jaspers (Centreville) Carry Me Home, Diane McWhorter (Centreville) The Sound and the Fury, William Faulkner (George Mason Regional) The Mayor of Casterbridge, Thomas Hardy (George Mason Regional) For Whom the Bell Tolls, Ernest Hemingway (George Mason Regional) Desolation Angels, Jack Kerouac (George Mason Regional) Doctor Zhivago, Boris Pasternak (George Mason Regional) Remembrance of Things Past, Marcel Proust (George Mason Regional) Oh Pray My Wings Are Gonna Fit Me Well, Maya Angelou (Chantilly Regional) The Glass Menagerie, Tennessee Williams (Chantilly Regional) Writings, Gertrude Stein (Chantilly Regional) Jane Eyre, Charlotte Bronte (Chantilly Regional) Doctor Faustus, Christopher Marlowe (Chantilly Regional) Great Issues in American History, Richard Hofstadter (Chantilly Regional) The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas, Gertrude Stein (Chantilly Regional) One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (Pohick Regional) Babylon Revisited: And other stories, F. Scott Fitzgerald (Reston Regional) To Kill a Mockingbird, Harper Lee (Reston Regional) The Aeneid, Virgil (Sherwood Regional) The Mill on the Floss, George Eliot (Fairfax City Regional) ---- A quick review of the list indicates that about 20% of these books are out-of-copyright, and likely to be found on on-line sources now, or soon. The rest, it would seem, are not being checked out, so why shouldn’t they be moved to off-site-storage, or the library’s catalog be updated to provide links to the on-line sources? The Fairfax library should be complimented for their intelligent use of resources. A Washington Post article claims that customers can’t find various “classics” in some of the local libraries in Fairfax County, VA, such as: “Abraham Lincoln: His Speeches and Writings”, “The Education of Henry Adams”, or Emily Dickinson’s “Final Harvest”. The libraries have been using their library inventory software to keep track of “low circulators”, which they are removing from the shelves of some of their libraries.

Well, these books can be obtained on-line at a couple of locations:

The Writings Of Abraham Lincoln:
http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC04731995&id=vq1LywH3-SkC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=Abraham Lincoln: His Speeches and Writings&as_brr=1

“The Education of Henry Adams”:
http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC70394769&id=qF8WAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=The Education of Henry Adams&as_brr=1#PPP12,M1

Emily Dickinson’s “Final Harvest”:
(Purchase prices start at $0.78)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0316184152/ref=dp_olp_2/104-5018890-4807947

The following list of books being culled seems to have emerged:

Books on the Chopping Block in Fairfax
The following books have been weeded from the shelves of various branches of the Fairfax County Public Library system or haven’t been checked out in 24 months and could be discarded. In parentheses are the branches where the books are endangered. The same title might be available at another branch.

The Works of Aristotle, Aristotle (Centreville)
Sexual Politics, Kate Millett (Centreville)
The Great Philosophers, Karl Jaspers (Centreville)
Carry Me Home, Diane McWhorter (Centreville)
The Sound and the Fury, William Faulkner (George Mason Regional)
The Mayor of Casterbridge, Thomas Hardy (George Mason Regional)
For Whom the Bell Tolls, Ernest Hemingway (George Mason Regional)
Desolation Angels, Jack Kerouac (George Mason Regional)
Doctor Zhivago, Boris Pasternak (George Mason Regional)
Remembrance of Things Past, Marcel Proust (George Mason Regional)
Oh Pray My Wings Are Gonna Fit Me Well, Maya Angelou (Chantilly Regional)
The Glass Menagerie, Tennessee Williams (Chantilly Regional)
Writings, Gertrude Stein (Chantilly Regional)
Jane Eyre, Charlotte Bronte (Chantilly Regional)
Doctor Faustus, Christopher Marlowe (Chantilly Regional)
Great Issues in American History, Richard Hofstadter (Chantilly Regional)
The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas, Gertrude Stein (Chantilly Regional)
One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (Pohick Regional)
Babylon Revisited: And other stories, F. Scott Fitzgerald (Reston Regional)
To Kill a Mockingbird, Harper Lee (Reston Regional)
The Aeneid, Virgil (Sherwood Regional)
The Mill on the Floss, George Eliot (Fairfax City Regional)
—-

A quick review of the list indicates that about 20% of these books are out-of-copyright, and likely to be found on on-line sources now, or soon. The rest, it would seem, are not being checked out, so why shouldn’t they be moved to off-site-storage, or the library’s catalog be updated to provide links to the on-line sources?

The Fairfax library should be complimented for their intelligent use of resources.

]]> By: Geoffrey Amiot http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/01/library-lock-out/#comment-30392 Geoffrey Amiot Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:53:36 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/2007/01/03/library-lock-out/#comment-30392 You can't kill ideas. Hitler already tryed that. You are right stay on point. Walnut for gun stocks and book shelves. Freedom of the pamphet will always be here. God bless. You can’t kill ideas. Hitler already tryed that. You are right stay on point. Walnut for gun stocks and book shelves. Freedom of the pamphet will always be here. God bless.

]]> By: Sam http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/01/library-lock-out/#comment-30391 Sam Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:33:37 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/2007/01/03/library-lock-out/#comment-30391 Wayne Martin is right: all those options are possible--if you're a well-educated, middle-class reader who has a discretionary income that allows book purchases (and Sony Reader purchases, until it becomes obsolete in a few years) at the prices he mentions. I guess my point would be that as a technology, printed books will last longer, even though they probably won't be the preferred medium for reading in a few years. I didn't mean that there was anything wrong with reading Grisham or King or the poetry of Paris Hilton, for that matter, if that's what people want to read. It's just that if the library follows a totally consumer-driven model, people might not have the opportunity to be exposed to the so-called classics. I'll admit that I have an old-fashioned idea of a library as a kind of public trust; one analogy might be that the newspapers and television news would attract more readers and viewers if they jettisoned war news and just reported on celebrity scandals. They don't do that, in part because a totally consumer-driven model isn't in the public interest. Wayne Martin is right: all those options are possible–if you’re a well-educated, middle-class reader who has a discretionary income that allows book purchases (and Sony Reader purchases, until it becomes obsolete in a few years) at the prices he mentions. I guess my point would be that as a technology, printed books will last longer, even though they probably won’t be the preferred medium for reading in a few years.

I didn’t mean that there was anything wrong with reading Grisham or King or the poetry of Paris Hilton, for that matter, if that’s what people want to read. It’s just that if the library follows a totally consumer-driven model, people might not have the opportunity to be exposed to the so-called classics. I’ll admit that I have an old-fashioned idea of a library as a kind of public trust; one analogy might be that the newspapers and television news would attract more readers and viewers if they jettisoned war news and just reported on celebrity scandals. They don’t do that, in part because a totally consumer-driven model isn’t in the public interest.

]]> By: Doug Sundseth http://www.joannejacobs.com/2007/01/library-lock-out/#comment-30390 Doug Sundseth Thu, 04 Jan 2007 18:57:49 +0000 http://joannejacobs.com/2007/01/03/library-lock-out/#comment-30390 "Whatever happened to browsing the stacks and picking up something you haven’t heard of, something that isn’t John Gresham or Stephen King...." Why is it wrong to pick up Grisham or King or some other popular current author instead of Chekov or Hemingway? Shelf space is finite (absent millions of dollars of building funds). The question is not whether to fill those shelves with books, but which books to fill them with. I submit that filling them with books that people read is better than filling them with books that people don't -- even if the authors of those books are insufficiently popular in E. Lit. departments. “Whatever happened to browsing the stacks and picking up something you haven’t heard of, something that isn’t John Gresham or Stephen King….”

Why is it wrong to pick up Grisham or King or some other popular current author instead of Chekov or Hemingway? Shelf space is finite (absent millions of dollars of building funds). The question is not whether to fill those shelves with books, but which books to fill them with. I submit that filling them with books that people read is better than filling them with books that people don’t — even if the authors of those books are insufficiently popular in E. Lit. departments.

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